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Brown-Warren: Do You Believe There's a War on Women?
Trailing in the latest polls, Elizabeth Warren charged Scott Brown is part of a Republican war on women. Do you agree, or is this just a stunt?
The Massachusetts Senate election will pit Sen. Scott Brown, a Republican, against Democratic nominee Elizabeth Warren.
Jeff Sullivan
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Senator Scott Brown has opened up a lead over challenger Elizabeth Warren in a new poll released Tuesday. Public Policy Polling has Brown over Warren by five points.
On the stump, however, Warren's on the offensive, saying Brown and the Republican party are waging a war on women. She's pointed to comments by Missouri Senate hopeful Todd Akin as the latest evidence of that war. Akin has been roundly condemned by liberals and conservatives alike for his statement that it's rare for women to become pregnant after a "legitimate rape." Akin has apologized and attempted to clarify his statement, saying he meant "forcible rape."
Brown has publicly called on Akin to drop out of the race, and asked that the Republican party soften its stance on abortion.
What do you think? Is Warren right about Republicans trying to claw back women's rights? Did Brown call for Akin's withdrawal to blunt these attacks? Or are Warren's claims about a war on women just the smoke and mirrors of a losing campaign? Tell us what you think in the comments section below.
[Editor's note: This story is posted on multiple Patch sites.]
Thanks. We'll email you the next time we update this story.
Gary
4:45 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Brown-Warren: Do You Believe There's a War on Women?
No not at all, but I do believe there are those who so strongly identify with the ability to eliminate 1.3 million human beings a year that any talk of limiting that ability to kill is seen by some as a war on women.
Valerie Doris
5:22 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
War on women? ABSOLUTELY NOT! (and I am a woman)
Patricia Elkins
6:02 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Brown is in lock step with the republican party's attempt to take away a women's right to make her own decisions about her healthcare and her family planning. Brown sponsored the Blunt Bill, that failed to pass in Congress. Under the Affordable Care Act women have covered contraceptives. The Blunt bill gave the employer the right to denie covered contraceptives which meant that a woman would have to discuss with their employer why she wanted to get contraceptives and if the employer had any religious, moral reason or any reason really they could denie the woman her right to the covered contraception under her medical health care and family planning insurance coverage. This would have been totally demeaning to women and would have given exceptional power and control to her employer and take basic rights away from women.
Earnhardt
6:14 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Wow.. you cannot possibly be serious... you guys are desperate!
Earnhardt
6:36 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
I think you better go back and read it... I mean read it, not skim over and forma quick opinion....
GB
9:06 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
You say "This would have been totally demeaning to women and would have given exceptional power and control to her employer and take basic rights away from women." NO. it lets morality stand in any business that wants to. Don't like that business, take it elsewhere, but do not force your immorality on anyone else..
M C Stringfellow
8:42 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
The time to think about healthcare and family planning is not after the fact, but before. Killing is killing no matter which way you look at it. Most abortions are not rape related nor are they incest related. Contraceptives should be available to any one who wants them, but not at my taxpaying expense. Nothing is free. Even under Insurance. Women need to take moral responsibility for their actions. Don;t want to be pregnant, do not put yourself in a position to become pregnant. AND, before you say "must be a man writing this, no dear, I am Woman, was married, now widowed and a mother.
Katy G.
3:01 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
There is no right to 'covered contraception' in the Constitution in spite of the many attempts on the part of liberals to manipulate the Constitution to their weird world view. When I was 30, actually by the time I was 16, I was taking responsibility for my own behavior. I would be embarrassed if Ms. Fluke were my spokes person. If I needed something I worked and paid for it. If I were unhappy at my job I left and got a new job. It's shameful to behave as though women in this country were so wimpy and stupid that they need have someone else hand them what they need. I guess all of that women's lib stuff that the boomers were engaging in when I was a kid was just a tantrum. They don't want equal responsibility to what men have, just a chance to try to manipulate society with a guilt trip for men. The liberal attitude about women is what is demeaning. It may be that for liberal women all of the most important issues in this country hinge on their intimate lives, but for the rest of us being that self absorbed is out of the question.
Earnhardt
6:13 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Trying to tie Scott brown to Akin and his remarks is about the same as people who put money in the collection box on Sunday's contribute to pedophiles! What a load of bunk! this is about as low as the democrats can get... wait maybe not, Look at Obama giving away free cash in Chicago 4 years ago. look at Deval ignoring EBT card abuse, Hmmm I could go on and on...
Katy G.
3:21 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Maybe we should tie Ms. Warren to the debacle in Benghazie that the Obama administration allowed to happen. It was Ms. Clinton's policy that disarmed those SEALs guarding Ambassador Stevens. It was Obama who had a visa issued to Hani Nour Eldin, a member of Gama 'at Islamia a jihadist organization whose Emir is the Blind Sheik. Obama is making nice with the Muslim Brotherhood while our troops and an ambassador are being murdered and dragged through the streets. Could Ms. Warren explain her party's policy on Middle East politics. Scott Brown has real life experience dealing with these countries. He has served in our military and cares about what happens to our troops. Instead of focusing on their personal lives maybe these liberal women should start paying attention to what's happening to our country. No one's going to care about your birth control when sequestration goes through and there's no one around to protect us anymore.
Patricia Elkins
6:20 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Brown has said he supports Romney/Ryan budget which will dismantle medicare by giving vouchers, a fixed amount paid by the Government. Hopefully they can find Insurance coverage that meets their needs. However, If the seniors needed more coverage then they would have to shop around and find Insurance coverage that they could afford, if not then they were out of luck. Lots of women would be effected. Also with the budget cuts aimed at the middle class programs and the republicans view that the wealthy should get tax breaks and cuts it just puts more and more women and children at risk of poverty. I feel their policies are terrible for women, students and children. Brown supports Romney and Ryan and voted with the Republican party to obstruct the Presidents jobs bills and any other democratic bill that would have created jobs for middle class workers in Massachusetts. He is misleading you by saying he is bi-partisan most of the time he has voted straight republican...that is what counts after the smoke clears.
siobhan hullinger
7:03 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Obama has already taken money from the Medicare / Medicaid system to pay for Obamacare ... Or didn't you pay attention to the fine print of how Ocare would be possible? The expiring "tax cuts" that Obama fought against are and we're direct hits to the middle class - to the tune of thousands of additional dollars per middle class family. Or do you only pay attention to the talking points?
You should do some research - real research not campaign marketing - and see what tax cuts and breaks are expiring.
Katy G.
3:34 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Ms. Elkins, Obama had a super majority in both houses of congress for the first two years of his presidency. He's had a majority in the Senate for the last two years. You must not realize that he has added almost six trillion dollars to our national debt in less than four years. We have had greater than 8% unemployment for Obama's entire presidency, (don't start blaming Bush for this, Bush was a lame duck for the last two years of his presidency). How is greater than 8% unemployment good for the middle class? With such high unemployment and all of those previously employed people collecting the dole who is paying the taxes for those social programs that you're so concerned about? This administration was caught in Fast and Furious selling automatic weapons to gangsters on our southern borders. Those guns have been tied to the death of Border Agent Brian Terry and over 300 Mexicans and have now been found in Columbia as well. Obama's fed is monetizing our debt making our currency worthless. How do you suppose all of those precious government programs are going to be paid for when this country is in a state of economic collapse. Think about it, our national debt is greater than our GDP which is presently less than 3%. Our national debt is greater than the combined GDPs of all of the countries in the world. Anyone who thinks that this country will survive another Obama term is profoundly misinformed.
Earnhardt
6:28 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
And you are not effected by Deval ignoring the EBT card abuse, the abuse that costs all of us millions of dollars? your not upset by Elizabeth saying that the small businees owner isn't responsible for building his business? so the landscaper that started mowing lawns with a used push mower is not responsible for building his business? how do you think that played out to small business owners? Please. Stop trying to link dots that do not exist....
Neil in Waltham
6:46 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
You might consider leaving a post that has something to do with the topic at hand, if you wish to be taken seriously by the grownups. Bait-and-switch tactics might be favored by the pundits in the media, but for the rest of us it's a clear sign of capitulation.
Neil in Waltham
6:40 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
There is no "war on women", nor is there a "war on religion". Sadly the "war" charge is thrown about casually by both sides in their attempt to appeal to our emotive, rather than our rational, minds.
Leaving aside the emotive points, there are two clear sides to the argument:
- one side insists women should have the freedom and power to make their own reproductive choices
- one side insists government should instead have the power to make reproductive choices for women
It's a simple question. Who decides what is best for you: You or the government? (I'm rather surprised to see Senator Brown, who's often spoken against "big government" control opting for "big government" control.)
But that's not to say government cannot be part of the solution for the problem of a high number of abortions...
We need to shift the focus from preventing birth to preventing pregnancy. Better sex education is part of the solution. Better access to birth control, including the morning-after pill, is another. In some cases abstinence should be encouraged. These are only a few...
There is no single solution, but the approach must involve empowering women by making them aware of their choices and consequences, and not limiting the possible solutions (as the disastrous "abstinence-only policies do). Disempowering women is decidedly not the solution, and should not seriously be considered by any democratic republic that prides itself on liberty and independence.
Earnhardt
6:55 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Neil in Waltham. what's the matter? you need to insult when you cannot come up with an answer? Act like the grownup you claim to be.
Chris Schaffner
9:39 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Well said Neil.
K Wood
9:47 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Excellent, Neil.
Katy G.
3:47 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Neil in Waltham, your only response to Earnhardt is to accuse him of doing what you just did. Do you really think that our kids need to hear more about sex in our public schools? Do you even have kids in the public schools? Our kids hear so much about sex, alternative sex, and adult intimate choices in our school systems that they've lost all innocence. While we simultaneously turn intimacy into some sort of meaningless form of play for our children we hobble their ability to become adults by taking away their responsibility for their choices in life. Birth control is so available to youngsters and anyone who wants it in this country that you'd have to be brain dead not to know how to get it. Most public schools have condoms available in the bathrooms or from the school nurse. Junior and Senior High School students can go to the nurses office for help getting birth control with no fear that their parents will find out. Abortion and birth control have been handed out like candy in this country, yet out of wedlock births continue to go up. Sexually transmitted diseases are on the rise and gonorrhea is now resistant to all but one anti biotic and that has to be administered via I.V. It's attitudes like yours that have divorced intimacy from procreation or even love that have led to the mess we're in. Your solutions are failures. The rest of us don't want them, and we don't want our tax dollars paying for them. No thanks.
N R
4:25 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Well Said, Neil. WE have some misguided little Republitards out here
Earnhardt
7:16 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Wow... thats the best you can come up with? you made the veiled accusation. Typical Warren supporter. you wait for someone to come along and speak up for you... I feel sorry for you... Peace
Earnhardt
9:01 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Granny. only a Warren supporter could make that connection... It figures, all you can do is Get Childish..... I wouldn't expect anything less for you
Local Dame
9:42 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Earnhardt, I'm watching this and really curious why Warren terrifies you so. Her crime is "inflating' her ethnic heritage.
What if we stop looking at "accusations" many of which are completely false, and instead look at the party platforms. We could have a civilized discussion about that... if we chose to.
Earnhardt
9:43 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Granny way to spoil the victoru for the dog owners with an idiotic post... you and Warren deserve each other. Go delete it, they had nothing to do with any of this...
Earnhardt
9:52 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Local Dame... we could.. and i tried that with another post, but seems like they dont want to play that way. Warren terrifies me for one reason (actually many) but she has no clue. I mean look at the remarks about small business owners. How can you take her seriously? Look at her press conference. she couldn't answer for herself. She deferred to the Governor... she is over her head. She is also proud of the Obama give a ways that are costing us millions. And she stands with Deval on EBT cards... again costing us millions... sorry we should all be terrified. I'm curious... why did you pick terrified? maybe to try and inflate her character as a big tough Democrat?
Earnhardt
10:02 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Granny i admit I have something to share.. Your a fool.. but somehow I think everyone knew that...
Earnhardt
10:03 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ Granny,, and i'm done with you... go try and play your games somewhere else...
karen
10:43 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
It's "you're" a fool, not your a fool.
Earnhardt
10:48 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
@ karen , I stand corrected. I guess if you can't contribute anything worthwhile, then go for the spelling errors,
siobhan hullinger
6:54 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
The issues we face today, as a country, are far more serious than turning every election into a single debate on abortion. Children today have grown up expecting abortion and birth control as part of their health care choice. Overturning Roe v Wade has long passed but if you all want to go down that road ... In the minute chance that it happens - and there are many steps to get to that point - every politician, career or not, will have a revolution on their hands.
The real issue for this election is .... Do we want to continue the path towards Europe and be insolvent with more people on welfare and public assistance and crushing unfounded government liabilities? If you do - vote Warren. If you don't - vote Brown.
Earnhardt
7:23 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
@ siobhan hullinger. Well said. :)
M C Stringfellow
9:19 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Exactly, the homeowner should start his own levee. Waiting for the Government to take care of everything is how we got in this mess. Republicans want to make you more dependent on yourself and the Democrats want to throw good money after bad to make people happy. I AM NOT HAPPY. Another stimulus isn't going to create jobs or turn the economy around. This election is either going to produce more of the same (always to be counted on) or we need to make a change and hope for the best. We certainly will go deeper into debt with the Democrats with their desire to make every one happy except the Americans. The Republicans can be counted on to at least try to do the best they can with what they will have left. AND, you have to ask yourself what type of person with any brains is going to build or rent a home in an area that is already below sea level. Only someone who expects the Federal Government to take care of him. The government is their to help, but not to be your parent, guardian or caregiver. YOU still must be responsible for yourself. I can only HOPE that CHANGE will come with this election.
Tim Hill
9:31 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012
There is no Ryan budget. People should stop pretending that there is. Ryan has only made proposals on the revenue side, going to a 10% and 25% rate, but even there has made no indication in the income spread the split would be. He has said that he would make up the difference by closing tax loopholes and deductions, but has refused to say which one. And that makes sense, as he is running for election and can't afford to say that he wants to get rid of the mortgage interest deduction (which he does and sadly has to if he wants to get anywhere) or child care deductions. With respect to spending cuts he has not given any specifics on more than $800,000,000,000 of the cuts. Again, he can't, because he is running for election and they are sure to piss someone off. That said, a "budget" that doesn't provide information on where the revenue is going to come from or what costs are going to be cut is simply not a budget. I know, I make budgets.
Michael Fleming
12:21 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
Tim...may i presume then that you are equally impressed with the presidents budgets that got not ONE vote in congress from either party when put forth for a vote? For two years in a row? Or the budgets that have not been passed by Hairy Reed and the Democratic Senate for three years? Do you think THEY might be hiding something when they don't want to tell us Americans what their plans are?
Just sayin....
Katy G.
4:05 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
I'm less concerned with Paul Ryan's budget proposals than I am with six trillion dollars added to our debt, a GDP below 3%, unemployment above 8%, and the fed monetizing our debt. Ms. Warren says that she is the 'brains' behind Occupy Wall street, that useless mess of destruction and self indulgence. She claims that she's part Cherokee when it's convenient to her, and she insists that small business owners didn't build their own businesses. I've been gainfully employed since I was 14. Ms. Warren is profoundly out of touch with working tax payers in this country.
Charlie Kadlec
1:31 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
An important measure of a candidate's qualification for political office is his/her credibility. In a contested race, it is legitimate for the opponents to highlight their rival's weaknesses, unpopular and/or inconsistent positions, and other "flaws" provided that the characterizations are factual. A contested race does not justify "lowering the bar" on the truthfulness of a candidate's statements.
Ms. Warren's sound-byte statements about Scott Brown and the Republican Party "waging a war on women" are patently false, designed to energize her supporters by creating resentment and anger, to once again exploit the very difficult and very personal abortion question. Ms. Warren knows, but chooses to ignore, that a debate about how payments for birth control should be structured is not tantamount to a debate about the legality of birth control. Ms. Warren fails the credibility test and therefore Ms. Warren does not deserve to be elected to represent us as our Senator.
Charlie Kadlec
Acton
Katy G.
4:06 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Thanks, Charlie, that's a great post.
Earnhardt
5:17 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
@ Chris Shaffner and @ K Wood, what's the matter? you do not like hearing all sides of the argument? you prefer to keep this one one point so that maybe you can win the argument? Go join Neil in Waltham...
Cairo kid
6:12 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Earnhardt! Go Take ur Meds and cool down, u must be Tea Party trash! Jeez! Such BS!
Earnhardt
6:17 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Go read fluffy posts if you don't like it.... you must be A Warren Kool Aid drinker
Local Dame
7:40 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Hey Cairo Kid
Did you happen to go to CAC in Cairo?
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
6:57 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
I thought Warren drank tea made from herbs and roots... carefully harvested on primitive native lands where buffalo roamed as far as the eye could see.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Claudette
11:18 am on Friday, August 24, 2012
How any middle class voter, much less a woman, could support the GOP agenda is a mystery to me. I'm guessing that Earnhardt is not a billionaire and that Valerie likes her uterus controlled by GOP menfolk and Catholic Bishops. My candidate, EW, has devoted her career to showing how and why the middle class has shrunk and continues to shrink. I want her brain power around these issues to represent Mass. in the US Senate. Scott Brown is a pretty face and an agile pretender in his moderate disguise. Elizabeth has the perfect qualifications to be great, and our first female senator.
Michael Fleming
12:30 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
Claudette...why is it AWFULL about government controlling your uterus as you put it, but don't twitch an eyelash when the government wants to control your ENTIRE FREAKING BODY in obamacare? Just curious why one part of your body s so sacrosanct, but your entire body is perfectly ok in government hands....hmm?
Earnhardt
4:52 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Claudette, You are right, I am far from a billionaire. But with the Democrats in office I am even FARTHER AWAY from ever being a billionaire. Why? A huge chunk of my money is going to pay for Free programs such as free birth control. As for EW, she has devoted her career to advancing herself in any way she could, Even if it means telling big stories about her heritage. She is too busy trying to discredit Scott Brown than raising any valid points as to WHY she should be elected, When pressed on ANY issue, she avoids-switches the subject. or gets someone else to answer I:E "I will defer to the Governor on that". As I stated way back in the discussion. If you are happy with the way things are, happy with give aways, happy with the amount of money coming out of your paycheck, then vote Democratic. And keep the change!
S T Hrouda
9:58 pm on Friday, August 24, 2012
Honestly, as a woman that fought for women's rights in the sixties and seventies, it is whiny women like Carolyn, Chris and Patricia that make it difficult for all women to be seen as equals. Why do they act like all women are "victims"? For Pete's sake, to make this election about having to spend $12/ month for birth control because their health insurance wouldnt pay for it is so adolescent. To attempt to persuade others to vote "for a democrat" out of a fear that Brown or Romney intend to repeal a woman's right to choose is baseless. Come on ladies, let's be grown ups and not little girls. Let's vote on grown up subjects, like size of our government, national debt, balancing a budget and job creation in the private sector.
M C Stringfellow
8:50 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
Amen to that.
Michael Fleming
1:13 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Double amen to that
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
3:04 pm on Saturday, August 25, 2012
Carolyn,
Your blastocyst is showing.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
S T Hrouda
8:36 pm on Saturday, August 25, 2012
Carolyn,
"I am woman hear me...roar"...I mean beg...really? You do not hear that from men.
S T Hrouda
8:39 pm on Saturday, August 25, 2012
Carolyn,
As I said earlier, there are larger issues at stake here. Believe it or not it is not always about sex.
Get over yourself!
Michael Fleming
12:34 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
I'm a conservative, but quite frankly, I am for women to have the right for abortion. Think about it...who but liberals would get an abortion? And who are they aborting? Future liberals. And the "war on women"? Ha! The majority of babies aborted are....female. Power on ladies!
Kira Gagarin
8:58 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
What a ridiculous comment. You are for liberal women aborting because they are aborting liberal women? Gotta love the logic there. Wow...
Many non liberals get abortions. It is easy to preach until YOU are in that situation. And you would be surprised what someone does when it is them or makes their child do when it is actually their child. And, as I hope you know, we are discussing abortion rights in AMERICA, where we do not know the sex of the child being aborted. Very different than aborting a child based on sex preference.
Again, just wow.
Rose J
9:21 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Ick. Good lord, ick. I bet the women in your life are so very proud of you.
Bill M
9:36 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Kira writes:
"we are discussing abortion rights in AMERICA, where we do not know the sex of the child being aborted"
Um, Kira, ever hear of this technology called ultrasound? It can be used to determine gender around 18 weeks. Further, there are new screening tests coming to market all the time.
Poppaone
10:37 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
Democrats define women from below the waist only. Condoms cost about six bucks at Walmart, so the democrats buy their votes for the few bucks each. And democratic women fall all over themselves to demonstrate their pride in in policy.
Darryl Butler
12:49 pm on Saturday, September 15, 2012
A candidate who claims to be a Native American to advance her career and is in fact not one, should not represent Mass. in Congress. It is an embarrassment to us the citizens of Mass.
Earnhardt
12:52 pm on Saturday, September 15, 2012
Well said, she won't make it anyways. she is spending all her money on TV commercials exaggerating Scott Brown's record anyways.. it's a desperate move by a desperate candidate.
Earnhardt
3:26 pm on Saturday, September 15, 2012
@ Sonny Beaches, no one is arguing about anything the Kennedy's do, But that's all the more reason NOT to elect Elizabeth Warren!
Earnhardt
3:43 pm on Saturday, September 15, 2012
@ Sonny Beaches... Don't be shocked, Just keep swinging away.
Darryl Butler
8:38 am on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Sonny,
The Kennedy's are in fact Catholics. EW is not a Native American.
Michael Fleming
1:40 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
If Brown were the guy trying to game the system in order to promote his career like Warren did, he would have howled out out of office, and rightly so. Yet the holier-than-thou Dems poo poo this clear and blatent dishonesty as a mere trifle. Such hypocrisy. Such pliable ethics. Such moral gymnastics being displayed. Not only should Warren be disqualified and hooted out of town, but any of the posters on this site should be embarrassed at their own convenient self serving morality, but they should be ignored in any of their protestations over other candidates in the future. And to actually believe that we conservatives are waging a "war" on our women, our sisters, our mothers, our wives is such a twisted example of hate and politically manufactored division...Chris Shaffner, Claudette, Carolyn ... shame on your dishonesty and hypocrisy. ...And your blindness to the obvious ...
Earnhardt
1:54 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Finally! someone speaks what we all feel! Michael, truer words were never spoken! Nice job! Besides that, she will be broke by tonight. she has spent soo m ch money on TV ads this weekend spreading mistruths and fabrications, it's clearly a latch ditch effort from a desperate candidate. Well said!
Earnhardt
9:38 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012
Carolyn a Gritter, with that logic, you should wait for the Government to fix all of your problems? If you build a house on a cliff and it slides down the mountain, should the govt. fix the mountain so it doesn't happen to you again? Absolutely not! If you by a house next to an airport, don't expect the govt to close it down because you hate the noise. We are all responsible for ourselves, Build a house where it floods,, that's YOUR problem. It's easy to hold your hand out , but ultimately, you have to do what you need to to protect yourself. As someone once said, help comes to those that help themselves. Democratic or Republican we cannot expect the Govt, to bail us out of every jam,
dan
6:46 am on Monday, September 17, 2012
Why is it the pro-choice, so anti-choice for the life of the baby. The baby’s life starts out as a blastocysts, one-cell, zygotes and embryos; yet, Carolyn A. Gritter and her pro-choice crowd don’t want the baby to live. Even, if the baby is 8 ½ months in the mother’s womb, she, and the Democrats, allowed for the baby to be killed. In addition, if the baby lives after the abortion procedure, the Affordable Care Act will allow public money to kill the baby outside of the Womb. Please where is the choice for the baby.
Bill M
12:01 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Ms Gritter repeats the same tired narrative about Intact D&X procedures (feel better that I don't call it partial birth abortion). Google Dr Mark Haskell and read about his testimony and the testimony of those that worked for him regarding his practice of Intact D&X. Dr Haskell performed thousands of these procedures on babies in the 23rd to 26th week of development... viable babies. Further, he stated that the reasons for the abortions were generally the same as those for abortion in general. As a reminder, Intact D&X involves inducing a woman then removing the legs, torso and arms of the baby from the mother's body leaving only the head in the birth canal. The physician then uses a sharp instrument, in the case of Dr Haskell his choice was scissors, to puncture the skull and suck the baby's brain out making "delivery" of the corpse that much easier.
If that is your definition of choice I pity your soul and if opposition to Intact D&X makes me "anti choice" I say that I will wear that moniker with pride.
Finally, it is our current President the most radically pro-abortion president in history, who voted against proposed legislation in IL that would force doctors to treat any babies who somehow survived late term abortions. He voted against it 3 times.
M C Stringfellow
2:23 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
TO Sonny, I do apologize. I looked it up. You are right.
Poppaone
2:27 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
In the Illinois legislature, Obama opposed the “Born-Alive Infants Protection Act” three times. The bill recognized babies born after attempted abortions as persons and required doctors to give them care. Protections for infants who survived abortions were shot through with loopholes, which is why the bill was offered in the first place. (Abortion doctors were leaving infants to die without any care.) The bill was supposedly a threat to abortion rights. Except it wasn’t. But he couldn’t even bring himself to protect infants brutalized and utterly alone in some medical facility taking what might be only a few fragile breaths on this Earth. Some moderation. The federal version of the bill that he opposed in Illinois passed the U.S. Senate unanimously. Some post-partisanship. President Obama is an extremist on abortion. He has never supported any meaningful restriction on it, and never will. In May, a bi-partisan majority of the House, including 20 Democrats, voted to ban abortion for the purpose of sex selection. As the National Right to Life Committee noted, it didn’t occur to reporters to ask the White House about the president’s position on the legislation. In other words, gender-based discrimination is OK—so long as it results in an abortion. According to a poll commissioned by the Charlotte Lozier Institute about 80 percent of people oppose sex-selective abortions."
Source: POLITICO August 12, 2012
M C Stringfellow
2:43 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Thank you for the information. Every little bit helps to clarify exactly what is happening. The more I know, The better my understanding. and the better to make a sound decision in November. I am apposed to abortion at any stage of pregnancy.
Poppaone
8:00 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Carolyn,
Obviously Obama had incorrect assumptions about the constitution then, and he still maintains those opinions toda, not matter what the court says. He remains, when compared to the House and Senate and the majority of the American people, an extremist on abortion.
Bill M
9:14 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Regarding Obama's votes (as in plural) against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, Ms Gritter doesn't complete the story. Even though the language used in the 2001 bill was consistent with bills passed in other states the IL legislature added language when the bill came up again in 2003 that explicitly stated the bill was designed to protect only infants outside the womb and was not intended to impinge on RvW in any way. Despite this, Obama again voted against the bill. He has offered no explanation for this vote.
With the benefit on hindsight we can see clearly that Obama's 2001 "concerns" were nonsense as no court has struck down the language used by numerous states and at the federal level to protect these babies.
Rather, the whole episode reinforces that Obama is radically pro-abortion and way outside the mainstream in this country on the topic.
Katy G.
4:19 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Sonny Beaches, It is time consuming to do research. When forming a position about something as charged as abortion it is really important to get as much information as possible. Most people have a limited amount of biased information. Just for the sake of approaching the subject from a totally different angle from your own check this out:
http://180movie.com/
I know that it's biased, but you don't have to agree with someone to take the time to try to understand their perspective. Another issue that bothers me about the whole abortion debate that you may not know about is the use of aborted fetal tissue in vaccines and commercial products. The use of aborted fetal tissue went into place at the same time that the rate of autism began to go up. There is research that links the two, but the pro choice lobby is moneyed and powerful and working hard to suppress it. Here are a couple of links on the subject:
http://www.cogforlife.org/
http://www.soundchoice.org/certification.html
I understand that there's bias in all political positions, but it's important to weed out the facts. Would you really want your kids vaccinated with vaccines that contain material from an aborted baby? The meat industry fed cows the rendered remains of other cows and bovine encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, was the result. What might happen if we cannibalize aborted humans?
M C Stringfellow
4:46 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
I did not know this. I knew about the vaccines as a possible link to Autism, but did no all the reasons. Autism is a whole other issue to be discussed at a later time. Thanks for the web links. As for MR/MS Beaches, do not be to hard on him. he is basically an antagonist. Loves to throw things out there and hardly ever follows through. I kinda like him.
Katy G.
5:03 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Please forgive me if I seem to be hard on Mr. Beaches. That definitely wasn't my intention. I was raised by liberal democrats and my extended family with only a few exceptions is still drinking the Kool Aide. I became a conservative by researching all sides of an argument before making my conclusions. My oldest son is excellent at critical thinking. When he was a kid he spent time discussing things with me that also made me see politics in a different light. Critical thinking isn't taught in the public schools. It wasn't taught when I was a kid, except that I had an excellent American History teacher in High School who studied law before he became a history teacher. He made us all write a 25 page thesis paper, typed, with no mistakes, in our Junior year of High School. It made me realize that if you want to have an opinion you need to not only back it up with facts, bu you need to be able to reason out and refute the opposing side. If Hitler proved anything it's that propaganda works. Most people I know don't bother to research anything, they just accept what ever they're told and therefore end up parroting media spin like Ms. Gritter, instead of expressing a well reasoned opinion. It gets tiring trying to reason with someone who seems to be brainwashed or is nonsensical. On the other hand, my Mom told me, you'd be better off dead than to live and die a Nazi. You'd better find out the truth, or you may be responsible for supporting horrific evil.
M C Stringfellow
5:25 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Sounds like you were a very lucky child and a very lucky parent. I also had a Democratic household. When my Father found out I voted Republican in my first election, I thought he was going to pack my suitcase and throw me out. We mended our differences and everything turned out fine. Although I an good at research, it falls in a different line(Historical). My husband was the political researcher. Now I am on my own and have to do it myself. Any info I can get I can research. Also, you were lucky with teachers. So was I until I moved to the South. NOT to say the education was mediocre, but there was no dedication in the teachers as there was in MA. Your Mom was right. You cannot be an Ostrich. Truth is truth whether you like it or not. MR/MS Beaches understands. He will let us know if we are wrong.
Katy G.
10:32 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Ms. Gritter, I hardly think of a N.Y. times poll of 1,301 people as representative of this country of greater than 300 million as a whole. Equally scientific would be my experience as a visiting nurse in the western suburbs of Boston. In the past eight years at my current agency I've found that in the more liberal towns of Concord and Lexington its about 50% for and 50% against. In more working class areas such as Hudson and Lancaster the opinion tends more in favor of life than death. It may be affected by the fact that my work involves taking care of people who are dieing. They tend to become more in favor of life as they are losing their own. Something that you can no longer take for granted for yourself seems more precious for others as well. If you look at the number of people at the march for life and compare it to the numbers of pro-abortion protesters you'd think that only about 2% of Americans are pro-abortion. I've never been to the March for Life myself, but people I've spoken to who have tell me that there are increasing numbers of young people each year. Maybe the idea that so much of their cohort has been cut up in utero puts them off. Pro abortionists try to frame the argument in terms of women as victims, but there is so much birth control available so cheaply now that it makes me wonder where the unwanted pregnancies are coming from.
Bill M
9:24 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Gallup poll, May 2012:
"Would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life"
Pro choice = 41%
Pro life = 50%
Neither, don't understand the labels and unsure = 9%
Same poll from May 2002:
Pro choice = 47%
Pro life = 46%
Neither, don't understand the labels and unsure = 7%
In one decade pro-life is +4 while pro-choice is -6, I like this trend.
Earnhardt
10:44 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
@ Kira Gagarin. Thank you! abstinence is always the best policy.
Kira Gagarin
12:33 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
I was absolutely 100% kidding. Abstinence is an unrealistic approach and has been proven to fail time and time again. Sexual education and responsibility is much more affective, realistic, and logical. Birth control + condoms +open discussion = safety. Abstinence = shame, unwanted pregnancy and STDs.
Katy G.
11:49 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Another alternate perspective for Ms. Gritter. In Nazi Germany the majority of people supported Hitler's efforts to eliminate Jews from German society. In the antebellum south the majority of Americans supported the enslavement of an entire race of people. If your stance is that majority approval makes something right and acceptable then you would logically have to say that you approve of slavery in the south until the time of the Civil War and anti-Semitic policies in Nazi Germany until after WW II. Just because an action has cultural approval doesn't make it morally correct. Anyway, my morals are too strong to be cowed into accepting something as ugly as abortion because the majority of people in this country have lost their moral compass because of folks like you and Ms. Warren.
Katy G.
11:58 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012
Mr. Beaches, Jonathan Swift was being sarcastic. No one reading what he wrote would think otherwise unless they were ignorant of the historical context of his writing. In any case, are you saying that if Jonathan Swift proposed the eating of unwanted babies and the majority of Americans agreed you would go along with it? If that's true, then you should broadcast your point of view more widely. Did you bother to look at any of the sites I posted? We're already consuming the remains of aborted babies, at least anyone who uses the products listed is. My family avoids them because cannibalism usually leads to some disgusting diseases. If we were all a bunch of cells and our lives had no metaphysical meaning then I would still find the prospect repugnant. It's interesting that you use Swift's Modest Proposal as an argument for abortion. I guess that spells your side of the discussion out pretty plainly. Ms. Gritter should be proud of you. Does Ms. Gritter have children? At what point did her children become human enough for their lives to have value? In the pro abortion argument that point would be whenever Ms. Gritter found them convenient enough to be worth having.
Earnhardt
12:09 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Katy. you are feeding the monster, and the monster is loving it. If you stop feeding it, It will go away. :)
Rose J
9:28 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
You scare me. And not in a provocative, interesting way. In a, wow, we are all so collectively screwed if ANYONE else out there thinks the way you do way.
Earnhardt
12:40 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
@ Kira Gagarin, of course you were kidding. I wasn't. Why would you bring children into your life when you can't afford them? For one reason: To get the state paid bennies. The more children, the more gets thrown to you at the expense of hard working people everywhere, Why should I pay for free birth control, but my diabetes supplies cost me money? Education and abstinence are the keys here. Snarky comebacks do not contribute anything to the conversation. Think about it. If you can barely make ends meet, barely able to keep the roof over you, why would you be trying to have children? Its\'s an easy answer: because the taxpayers will support you.
Earnhardt
12:50 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Have a good night...:)
Earnhardt
9:49 am on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
@ Rose J Welcome to the discussion!
Rose J
1:44 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Katy is the one who scares me, not Earnhardt.
Katy G.
8:12 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Rose, I don't normally consider myself scary, why don't you explain what's so frightening about what I've said. I'm just curious.
Anonymous
12:16 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
I do support abortions, especially if the baby will be born sick/disabled like with Down syndrome, autistic, etc and become a burden for parents and society. But it doesn't mean I should support that fraudulent professor Warren who think she knows what is best for me.
Rose J
1:47 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
"Anonymous"? Or Adolf Hitler? Abortion for the purpose of creating some sort of perfect race, as you see it? As I said, you people scare me.
M C Stringfellow
4:02 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Do you know any people with Down Syndrome or parents of Down Syndrome? Do you know anyone who is autistic or parents of autistic children? Perfect Worlds or Utopias do not exist. I now realize that some children that were considered slow and unable to meet standard in elementary school may not have been retarded but autistic. Shame on you. Ask the parents of these children if they feel a burden. Most will tell you they have learned more than they had hoped. Sure there are problems as there are with all children. Nothing is perfect, but you receive back more than you will ever give. Leave your name as Anonymous, I wouldn't want protesters at the door or to be burdened by emails from parents of children who suffer illnesses such as you describe. And yes Rose J. you should be scared. Obamacare scares me, as the geriatric crowd is about to be fallen upon by the Medical police of the Federal Government.
Roth Gill
4:59 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Right to life....Pro-choice...regardless of your personal beliefs: Anonymous, are you saying those with disabilities do not deserve to live? How many children who aren't classified as disabled are a burden on their parents? Should we stick them in the same boat ( or camp ) as the other "undesirables"? Do you know anyone with Downs Syndrome? I happen to work with many people with a range of developmental disabilities and they are all worth breathing the same air as you and I. Their parents and families all love them and accept them and do not view them as "burdens". I agree with Rose....you people scare me. Instead of politely exchanging thoughts and ideas on a difficult subject, the majority or the comments I have read contain personal insults towards each other. But to make the assertation that the world will be a better place and easier to live if everyone with a disability would just simply not be born is simply wrong. I sincerely hope that someday you will realize that your thinking process behind your above statement is quite flawed. We are all human.
Kira Gagarin
5:17 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Roth Gill: While you are certainly welcome to raise and love and be proud of your child whatever obstacles he or she may be born with, you should allow others to be able to make their own decisions about whether they feel they can meet the special needs and requirements of those children, or whether they would prefer to abort that pregnancy in the first trimester.
Katy G.
8:26 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Anonymous, I can't criticize you for making this statement, as it is a statement that I've heard parroted by liberals frequently. Statements such as, "What kind of life will that baby have, anyway?" and "I wouldn't want to live like that!" It's a method of persuasion used by the left that convinces a person to project their feelings onto someone else, a sort of false empathy, as an excuse for doing something that, if looked at in light of day, would be evil. The first group of people that Hitler rounded up to kill were the mentally and physically infirm because he thought that they were inferior and had nothing to contribute to society. I've volunteered and worked with developmentally disabled adults since I was in High School. They've done more for me than I have for them. These folks have so much to contribute, even the ones who can't speak, in terms of their gratitude for the good things they do have, their ability to see things for what they really are and express the truth innocently, and their ability to return love for love in greater measure than most of us are capable of. It's also important to remember that we're not the ones being born with Down's Syndrome. Who are we to judge whether or not these folks love their lives or want to live. If you go to Minute Man Arc and ask the people I've worked with if they'd rather be dead they would wonder what you were getting at. They love being alive with a relish that I can only wish for the rest of us.
Anonymous
9:43 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Yea, yea. We are talking about humanity. But the costs of being human are high and rising. Just look at SPED education. And, since we are heading toward fiscal cliff, then what? Hey, have you heard that in Spain illegal immigrants can no longer have government funded health insurance now?
Anonymous
9:48 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
By the way, why is it such a bad idea to have a healthy nation? Or do you enjoy to be around sick and overly-obese ugly people?
David Lahr
4:56 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Warren is favorite to win the seat. Looking at any one poll is big mistake - see here for extensive details:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/fivethirtyeight-forecast-g-o-p-senate-hopes-slipping/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
"War on women" is a lousy term, but the fact remains that one party votes against laws to require equal pay for women, votes against women having the right to choose what to do with their bodies, votes against women having access to contraception - even being able to buy it themselves! (let alone having health insurance that covers it).
M C Stringfellow
7:29 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Yes, both are guilty.
Earnhardt
8:24 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
@ Rose J. let me introduce you to the funniest person on here! the king of the commenting with insults, the undisputed master at googling one liner comebacks, the one and only person who spends all his waking hours on here, @ Sonny Beaches! enjoy him now, he gets old fast,,,,,,
Earnhardt
8:26 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
@ Sonny Beaches, hey I manage part time a little comedy club in N. Andover. I think you are a Rickles type person. are you interested? you are pretty funny!
Earnhardt
8:44 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Or are you only good when you hide behind the keyboard? I hope not!
Katy G.
8:36 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012
What's getting lost in this conversation is that the political discussion is not about whether or not abortion should be legal, it's about whether or not people who disagree with it should be forced to pay for it. If abortion is against my religion why should my taxes be used to pay for it? If our country is profoundly broke, why should tax dollars be paying for anyone's birth control or abortion? I do support Medicare and Medicaid. I've had patients who really need the help, but we are rapidly becoming financially insolvent as a nation in large measure due to democrat policies and activities. When the country is bankrupt whose getting what from the government will no longer matter. In the meantime, Obama has put a stop to the keystone pipeline and drilling in U.S. territory and the middle east from whom we import a good deal of oil, (not the most, that's Canada), is in flames. Middle eastern countries are rapidly letting us know how they feel about us. How will things go here if we can't get oil from the middle east, we aren't getting it domestically, and we get involved in a larger military conflict than what we're already saddled with? Romney may not be an ace in the hole on all issues, but he's miles better than what we've got in there. Ms. Warren is just more of the same in terms of Obama's policies, so I won't vote for her.
Rose J
9:15 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
What scares me about you (and I realize I am opening myself up to a tiresome, meaningless debate here) is that you and many like you who have spent lord knows how much time deliberating an issue that last I knew was settled damn near FORTY YEARS AGO in a Supreme Court decision are going to take to the polls in a couple of months, and these are the issues driving your vote. Is anyone else aware that the, um, planet is melting? That, my friends, is the single most pressing issue facing not only our country but our SURVIVAL. In between all your incredibly interesting research on abortion, have you taken even a moment to look into Romney's plans for the environment? Nah, I didn't think so. Here's a quote from Mittens at the RNC: in contract to Obama's promises to heal the planet, "My promise is to help you and your family"? Where exactly does Mittens think I and my family live? Here -- on a melting planet!
Earnhardt
6:49 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
@@@@@@@Sonny Beaches, I tried, Somehow i knew you would not be interested, Hiding behind the KEYBOARD and insulting is your game... What a shame, you have talent. BTW. You are getting slower with the comebacks... :) Peace.
Earnhardt
8:12 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
@@@@@@ Sonny Beaches, thanks for continuing to prove my point. How is the driving down on the low road? Ok I am off to do something you obviously do not do.... Work, BTW can you look out your basement bedroom wondow and let us know if its still raining?. Keep on proving me out... adios!
Katy G.
5:50 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Earnhardt, Sonny Beaches would be a poor comedian. He can only attempt to be funny by treating people who don't agree with him with contempt. He must not have a job. If you look at the time of his posts they span the day and evening. It's a sad reflection on someone who looks like he has nothing else to do all day which could indicate that he doesn't pay taxes, he lives off of them, in which case arguing that high taxes are an issue with Mr. Beaches is a waste of time. If he isn't successful at anything he probably doesn't have a family. If he has no kids then he has less reason to care about the future of the country. Contempt isn't a point of reference, it's a point of view.
Poppaone
9:25 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Enough!
This has now become a bore and a pissing contest. Let's move onto a new topic. How about the tax increases caused by Obamacare...
Poppaone
9:32 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Let me count the ways...
Poppaone
10:05 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Nice try, Sonny. You seem very confident with your answer. So far 13,000 pages of regulation for a 2700 page law, and they have only just started. It is not possible to know what is in it, but you must comply with it under penalty of law. The president took $716 billion out of medicare to pay for Obamacare but also raised taxes by $836.3 billion to pay for it. How can that be? As I said, let me count the ways...
Poppaone
10:20 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
New Taxes From Obambacare.
- Starting next year, payroll tax for health insurance increases from 2.9% to 3.8%.
- A tax applied to investment income for the first time
- Fee on manufacturers and importers on branded drugs based on share of the market.
- 2.5% Excise Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices (driving up the cost of medical care while claiming to providing us with "freebees".
- In 5 years, a 40% excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" health plans (some people require these plans because they already have pre-existing conditions)
- In 2014, there is a penalty paid by employers who don't offer coverage.
- In 2014, an annual fee by health insurance providers based on each company's share of the total market.
- In 2014, Tax on individuals who do not purchase healthcare.
- Limit on the amount an individual can deposit in a fexible spending account (FSA) to $2500.
- Increased penalty for purchasing disallowed products.
MORE - See below
Poppaone
10:28 am on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
- Reduction of the number of products that can be purchased using your Health Savings Account (HSA).
- Fee on insured and self-insured health plans.
- Elimination of corporate deduction for prescription expenses for retirees.
- 10% Excise Tax on indoor tanning services (political agenda from some connected beaurocrat?)
- Limit on the amount of SALARY that can be paid to each healthcare provider employee
- End of special deduction for Blue Cross Blue Shield organizations
- And so on and so on. So much for "there haven't been any "tax increases caused by Obamacare". WAKE THE HELL UP!
Kira Gagarin
12:03 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Wow. I'm usually on the Framingham Patch. Interesting to see every town has that "Sonny Beaches".
Katy G.
5:42 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Rose J, You claim to be frightened by me because I'm a one issue voter, then you proceed to illustrate that the only issue that motivates you when it comes to voting is the bogus climate change pseudo science that you've been duped by. Most of the research I know about concerning abortion was picked up in nursing school and medical articles I've read. I have to keep educating myself about my field of work as it's mandatory for me to keep my license. The reason why abortion was brought up in this feed is because liberals are claiming that Republicans have a 'war on women.' George W. Bush was president for 8 years and no one took birth control off of the market. Abortion isn't the main issue that I vote on. You need to read all of the posts here to understand where this conversation came from. This is really a conversation about those of us who work and whether or not we can continue to pay for birth control and abortion for 30 year old law school grads like Ms. Fluke. Here, I did your research for you. Try looking at an alternate point of view about 'global warming' and see if you still believe in it:
http://eyreinternational.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/leaked-emails-expose-us-uk-science-fraud-on-global-warming/
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/
You and your fellow liberals could also try to be respectful of people who are different from you.
Rose J
9:29 am on Thursday, September 20, 2012
I'm a liberal? That's news to me.
Interesting links (both blogs, by the way), but anyone can google anything to find "support" of whatever they claim -- in your case, that our melting planet is nothing but "pseudo science." 330 consecutive months of the warmest temperatures on record: fact. Rapid Greenland ice melt: fact. Unpredictable and erratic weather -- the hallmark of global climate change (think wildfire, flooding, heat waves) -- worldwide: fact.
This is not a partisan issue, and that is what scares me the most about people like you -- that you insist on making it one. On this issue, Katy, I actually wish you were right. But you're not. Facts are facts.
Katy G.
7:15 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
More contempt from Mr. Beaches, proving my point. You and Ms. Gritter tried to make the argument that if the majority of people supported a law it must be right. If you aren't aware that the Nazi Party was a powerful force in Nazi Germany due to its popularity then you spend too much time in that cave you live in. If something is morally wrong, the majority of people supporting it doesn't make it right. If the majority of people in this country support abortion, then it's a non-issue as we are a representative republic, but that still doesn't justify folks like Poppaone, Earnhardt, and myself having to pay for other people's abortions with our tax dollars. The country is broke, not just regular old broke, but brokety broke, broke, broke, to put it in terms that you might understand. Even if you love the idea of spending tax dollars to pay for Ms. Fluke's sex life it may just be that America can't afford Ms. Fluke that luxury anymore. She may have to get a job using that law degree that she got from Georgetown and pay for her own abortions. Given that Georgetown law grads make $160,000 starting pay that shouldn't be too hard for Ms. Fluke. If you ever enter the work force and start paying taxes you'll have an easier time understanding how the rest of us feel. Until then, it's a working people thing, and you wouldn't understand.
Earnhardt
9:24 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Sonny must be in that 47% Mitt was talking about. He commented all day from his parents basement bedroom... Living off the taxpayer's Sonny? by the way. did the "Implants" work? I heard through the grapevine you still have a limp.:)
Anonymous
10:12 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Nazi Germany, Nazi Germany. I am sure, you people really have no idea about Nazi Germany and what was the life like in Germany prior to Hitler's assuming the power in 1933. When you are pushed against the wall, what are you going to do? Or maybe you think that USA, UK and France were the innocent peace-loving countries back then?
Katy G.
10:25 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Anonymous, please don't get me wrong, this isn't an indictment of Germans. What I'm trying to explain to Ms. Gritter, mostly, because she claimed that a survey of 1,301 people by the N.Y. times proves that abortion is fine with most Americans, is that majority acceptance doesn't make something right. I could use the example of the Aztecs who sacrificed their enemies and members of surrounding less powerful communities to a sun god by ripping their still beating hearts out on a stone table. You could say that the majority of Aztecs found this perfectly fine. That doesn't make it morally correct, healthy or acceptable. Does that make sense to you? The idea that any activity is o.k. because it's popular shows a complete lack of moral standards for behavior. It may be that the majority of people are like Mr. Beeches, unable to reason out a moral stand point on anything. Their reasoning skills are reduced to contempt and twisting the subject, but not addressing the issue at hand. You, personally may feel that abortion is fine. I don't. You may feel that taking hard earned money away from one person and giving it to another able bodied person who doesn't work in the name of being 'fair' or for redistributive purposes is fine. I don't. We can both say that we have a different perspective. In that case, a logical argument in favor of the opposing view would be interesting. Meaningless insults are a sign of a weak or an absent point of view.
Earnhardt
10:12 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Katy. he isn't going anywhere! his folks told him it was time to shut off the light and go to sleep. You can bet he is under the covers with a flashlight thinking real hard for a sassy comeback... He thinks he is pulling one over on the parents! :)
Anonymous
11:20 am on Thursday, September 20, 2012
Katy, no I do not favor a redistribution of wealth. But at the same time you can't judge people who lived in their place and time for making life-n-death decisions pertinent to their nation's survival.
Carolyn A. Gritter
3:55 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012
To commenters: Despite making what I thought to be reasoned and civil comments, I have received abusive phone calls referencing content. I hope the vituperation will stop. In the meantime, I'll be dropping out of the discussion. The caution is: don't naively use your full name as I did.
Bill M
4:02 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012
While we disagree almost completely on this very serious topic it saddens me to hear that someone would go so far as to make an abusive phone call based on your posts.
M C Stringfellow
4:59 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012
I am deeply sorry to hear that you have been receiving abusive calls. While I may disagree on somethings, I found your responses to be most helpful and am truly grateful for you input.
Katy G.
8:28 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012
Ms. Gritter, I'm sorry to hear that you, of all of the people I disagree with are leaving the discussion. You do respond with reasoned, fact based, responses. Even if we don't see eye to eye, I'm sorry to hear that someone is being so rude to you. We have caller ID so that we know who is calling. I agree with Mr. Beeches, for once. Call the police and let them deal with it. Making threatening phone calls is against the law. Bullies need to be stopped from the start or they get out of hand.