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Recap and analysis of the week in state government.
Four years ago Gov. Deval Patrick went to the Legislature and asked for a 19-cent gas tax increase to fund transportation. They scoffed at his idea, then raised the sales tax and swore off further revenue increases, until now.
With that history in mind, a sense of irony settled over Beacon Hill this week, where there's a possibility that the governor's proposal to hike the income tax, lower the sales tax and eliminate some tax deductions might be driving lawmakers back to that moment in 2009 with a chance to reconsider.
It would be odd if House lawmakers turned later this month to the gas tax for new revenue. But not implausible. At least not anymore.
The plot thickened as the negotiations between House Speaker Robert DeLeo and Patrick - private up until now - spilled more into the public sphere. And with little to nothing else on the legislative agenda at the moment, all ears were tuned.
DeLeo on Thursday went before the Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce to embrace Patrick's priorities of investing in transportation and education, with one big caveat. He committed to raising new revenue for transportation, but said the House plan would be "far more narrow in scope and of a significantly smaller size" than Patrick's $1.9 billion ask. And he said he wanted to do it apart from the budget, possibly by the end of the month.
And so on a snowy Friday afternoon, Patrick went before the House and Senate Ways and Means committees to testify on his own plan, an unusual but not unprecedented step by the governor to lobby lawmakers face-to-face in public with the clock ticking a little faster. And he brought charts.
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Cognizant of DeLeo's comments, Patrick warned against the temptation to focus just on transportation for now and to ignore education needs until a later date. He said he did not "pad" his $1.9 billion investment plan, and while there may be more than one way to skin a cat, he cautioned against "backing ourselves into half a cat."
Calling "brainpower" the hallmark of Massachusetts, Patrick likened a transportation-only strategy to the idea that Texas would stop investing in oil, or Iowa turning its back on corn. And then he addressed the gas tax, a topic that has dogged him for years - in short, he was against raising it before he was for that idea.
Without being specific, Patrick said he has heard that some in the Legislature want to raise the gas tax, maybe by 15 cents. (Full disclosure, Patrick's plan also raises the gas tax, but only by half of a penny tied to inflation)
Calling such a plan "unacceptable to me," Patrick said 15 cents tacked on to the state's current 21-cent tax "does not buy us a modern transportation system" and tripling the gas tax to pay for everything would make the state uncompetitive. Moreover, a gas tax increase would help pay for the MBTA deficit and get transportation employees off the capital budget, but once again require residents in central, western and southeastern Massachusetts to foot the bill for Boston-area improvements.
DeLeo also said this week that regional equity will be a priority, so on that they agree. And he acknowledged what every vehicle owner knows - that gas prices are high, making a gas tax hike "a little more difficult" still, even if New Hampshire is contemplating a 15-cent increase of its own.
Concerns about how much extra people can afford to pay and how to spread that responsibility equitably are behind decisions being made on taxes. But if lawmakers are being honest - and Sen. Marc Pacheco was in the mood to be Friday - there are other electoral forces at work. Pacheco reminded Patrick that he's seen this movie before - when Michael Dukakis held Patrick's job - and it ends with 16 years of Republican governors.
There were signs of economic health. February tax collections were reported to be up 4.5 percent from last year and $25 million above lowered expectations for the month.
And the year-end revisions from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics delivered promising news that Massachusetts employers added 16,100 jobs in January and 92,800 jobs over the course of 2011 and 2012, up 32,100 from previous estimates. It was a reverse of last year's revisions, which looked back and saw lower job growth rates.
Economic recovery, regardless of the measuring stick, has done little to soften the attitudes of voters toward government, with a new UMass Lowell poll showing that voters trust Beacon Hill (28 percent) only a little more than Capitol Hill (12 percent).
That same poll showed a striking unfamiliarity among voters with potential statewide candidates like Charlie Baker and Treasurer Steven Grossman, and a comfortable, if early, lead for Congressman Edward Markey over Democratic challenger Rep. Stephen Lynch and all three Republicans. Voters largely don't know who they are either.
Unfamiliarity can be a double edged sword. For those trailing, it means there is still a chance to introduce yourself and for voters to change their minds. It also means your opponents can do the same to you.
That's what Democrats were up to this week, their target of choice being former Republican U.S. Attorney Michael Sullivan, who they anointed frontrunner for the Republican nomination despite little substantive evidence to back up that status. Some think Democrats would prefer to run against Sullivan in the general since they view him as the most conservative of the GOP men in the field.
The Massachusetts Democratic Party laid it on thick, painting Sullivan as an active enemy of gay rights and marriage equality with little to go on except his public statements that he's a "traditionalist" who believes marriage is between a man and a woman.
Sullivan did not waiver on that fact, but said he has never tried to undermine equal marriage in Massachusetts and was practically bullied into declaring his opposition to the Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal benefits to legally married same-sex couples. Sullivan eventually said he supports allowing states to set marriage laws. Gun control is expected to be the Democrats next line of attack against Sullivan.
Finally, any excitement over the possibility of the Olympics coming to Boston had a short shelf life, touted by private promoters only to be quickly doused by Mayor Thomas Menino, who called the idea "far-fetched" after the U.S. Olympic Committee told organizers to get the mayor on board and then they could talk.
STORY OF THE WEEK: Tax showdown taking shape, sooner than maybe expected.
Dan
8:08 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Keep those taxes coming!!!Vote another Dem in!!!Looks like I'll be going to NH for gas along with everything else now!!
Mike G.
12:17 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
They're hiking the gas tax up in NH too.
Myron Dittmer
8:39 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
How many times do we need to be fooled by our politicians before we smarten up? Our Governor has never met a tax he didn’t like and now wants more taxes, more spending, with better prospects for national office. Sorry……but not on my “dime”! Try doing the people’s work first like cutting waste and fraud! It may be difficult to do but so is living in this state with its high taxes and high costs!
Tina
8:55 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
As a cat lover, I vehemently object to Governor Patrick's use of the cruel term "more than one way to skin a cat." A more apt use of that metaphor would have been to say "more than one way to skin a taxpayer."
I also vehemently oppose his plan to raise our income taxes. For what? We do not need a rail line to New Bedford. Who would use it? We're getting along just fine without it. Regarding education, we have a fine system. Parents should be exhorted to take advantage of all our schools have to offer by actively taking part in their children's education, encouraging them with homework assignments and attending parent-teacher conferences. Reading to one's kids from day one is also important. I never attended pre-school, but my parents always read to me, and I did very well after I started school in kindergarten.
So, please, Governor Patrick, do not saddle your constituents with an unnecessary tax hike. We are still enduring hard times, despite the proclaimed increase in jobs in our state. My question is, what KIND of jobs? Are they temp or contract jobs with no benefits? Are they fast-food jobs with no future? So, Governor, I know you won't be running for office again, but don't leave us with higher taxes as your parting shot.
Quentin
8:57 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Hilarious!
Mark Chulsky
9:37 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Tina, there will be more jobs in the tax-collection department of your favorite bureaucracy.
Ron Powell
10:44 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
The idiom "skin the cat" means "hanging by the hands from a branch or bar, drawing the legs up through the arms and over the branch, and pulling oneself up into a sitting position." And by half cat, Patrick meant getting stuck midway -- like one leg caught on a branch.
It's a pretty good metaphor, because that is what progressives do: they come up with these neat gymnastic tricks, don't quite pull them off, and then blame someone else because they are now stuck in a tree.
Tyler Jozefowicz
11:00 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Tina: few points.
There are thousands of people that will use the rail line from New Bedford to Boston, for jobs , commerce and shopping, tourism. Opens up jobs both ways. Beats car commute to work that is impossible, 25 dollars to park a day , traffic jams in the morning, couldn't get close to Boston in the morning under 2 hours, $50 more for gas a week. Traffic analysis has been done . It's good for commerce. The fact that you will not use it is irrelevant.
The education points you state are fine . They need to be complimented by advanced curriculum , texts , teachers, programs- that is why MA is #1 in secondary education in the country. Reading to your kids won't do it.
Side note : if we did not spend 2 trillion ( direct & indirect costs) on 2 unpaid wars , there would be more money for infrastructure. We are now paying for those wars by letting our infrastructure dilapidate.
Jobs are the purvue of the private sector, not government. Governors do not run companies , CEOs do. Your question should be put to the CEOs who are cutting salaries , hiring part-time, doubling the work load, healthcare and shipping jobs and moving facilities overseas , deferring and hiding cash in Swiss bank accounts . Please talk to the private sector. The business groups are actually in favor of more infrastructure and rail lines.
Bob
2:01 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Tyler, I do love your bright enthusiasm and naivete. They said the same things about the Green Bush line which saw less than 50% ridership than projections. They also said the Big Dig would end traffic jams in Boston. Ask anyone who sits on 93 South about how that worked out! It is a boondoggle we cannot afford and will NEVER pay for itself!
You are right about jobs and the private sector. The one and only thing government can do is to create a tax climate equitable for a business to increase payroll. If I don't know what taxes and regulations will be coming down next year, I will not take the risk of increasing my payroll. It is that simple. Cut business taxes (they never really pay them anyway) and stop the over regulation and tax revenues will go beyond even the current record of $2.7 TRILLION which is being wasted.
Carolyn Costain
11:45 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Tina, it just goes to show what a real "dog" of a governor we have!
CoachRaf2
9:03 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Deval Patrick from 2006
Q: You oppose rolling back the state income tax from 5.3% to 5% and one of your opponents, Lt. Gov. Healey, says you will be the biggest tax and spender since Mike Dukakis.
PATRICK: Well, no is the answer to that. I think it’s a mistake to roll the income tax back to 5% right now. I think we can do it but we have to grow the economy so that we can afford to do it. I think its interesting to be lectured on taxes by the Lt. Gov., whose administration is responsible for $985 million of new taxes and fees. That’s what’s come from this administration. What I want to do is cut the property tax. I want to expand the senior exemption for property taxes and the circuit breaker. I want to extend them to low and moderate income home owners. I want to eliminate all those nuisance fees for playing on a high school team or parking in the school parking lot, and I want to restore local aid so we can get property taxes down and keep them down.
AHM
9:14 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Kind of unrealistic from a govenor who has no clue what the average person here has to do just to survive day to day. If you want him to understand you would have to put him on a $500 a week salary and make him get by on it. Even that I am not sure he would get it. Even his own dem peers are not buying this.
Mr. G
9:14 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
So let me get this straight: a 2.4% reduction in the rate of growth (not cut) enacted by the president in the sequester will devastate the economy and hurt Massachusetts residents that are already hurting. But a $1.9 billion tax increase ("investment") in additional infrastructure (while the current infrastructure continues to collapse into disrepair) is not going to hurt? Who is he kidding? Cut the abuse. Cut the fraud. Cut the waste. Cut the 7,694 state workers making over $100,000 per year (that's at least $769,400,000 annually not including benefits, etc.). Alas, this is Massachusetts, where Democrats never have to explain themselves. Where the media never does the math or asks the hard questions. Where voters who collect are more than happy to vote themselves more money from the pockets of those who earn.
Francis P. Ardito,Sr
4:30 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Mr.G. , Amen ! You criticize the Media. Which type ? The Globe type or the Herald type? The TV stations ? The media are in Democratic back pockets and corruption continues !
dana banda
9:18 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Here we go again, democrats need more revenue, aka taxes and fee increases, how else would they be able to fund their own, folks read the papers, the democratic establishment, all the scandles the patronage jobs, they dont care, they have no morals, its all about taking the most of our money and giving it to the low informed voter, remember property tax relief, ya right, read the latest government scandal,
Lemonjello
9:25 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
I could not agree more than with Dana Banana. They don't care, they have no morals.
Amber B.
12:53 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
To paraphrase Ron Paul, if you elect people of character to office you don't have to worry about corruption. We have a HUGE character/morality deficit amongst elected officials.
Janet Sroczynski
9:23 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Keeping tabs on the governor.
Tim
9:27 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Stop playing us for fools Mr. Patrick. We are not all gullible lambs. Cut the state fraud and wasteful spending that occurs on our dime. If we, the state, cannot afford a project, we don't do it until we can afford it. It is called "sticking to a budget". We, the people, do it every day to survive. You should learn how it works! Stop trying to force us to pay for your political gain! That is not how things work here. We are tired of your ignorance and arrogance and will not tolerate any more. Take your smug little grin and put it in your pocket for a while...and do the job you were voted into and took oath to do.
Sam
9:48 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
What state are you living in Tim? Apparently we are fools. We keep electing these hack Dems for these offices in landslide victories. The gimme crowd has won here in Mass already and they have just won nationally. As soon as amnesty hits conservatives are done. GSUA
Tyler Jozefowicz
11:06 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Sam: quantify "the gimme crowd"- category and rough dollars. Heard the rhetoric so long , but no one backs it up, and don't just quote a total dollar budget line . Thanks.
Barb Nahoumi
9:29 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Read my lips. NO MORE TAX HIKES.
Emcee of Seekonk
10:03 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Hopefully all you Democrats who oppose this crazy tax hike, will stand firm on election day. Don't replace this governor with another Democrat because that party will understand it as a mandate to raise taxes.
Let's not encourage any more 'investments' in Massachusetts.
Tyler Jozefowicz
11:11 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Great plan , Governor . Excellent example of fine tuning the tax code and bolstering the MA economy to make the revenue side more effective. We need to invest in infrastructure and education not hide under a rock. That is where the emphasis should be. I like it
wiley coyote
8:38 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
@ Tyler Jozefowicz. The Governor needs to get his house in order before he begins to even think about raising taxes. Here is a report from Hot Air
posted at 3:21 pm on February 6, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham : The state’s embattled welfare chief was forced to step down yesterday in the wake of a shocking internal report that found that a staggering 47,000 families receiving taxpayer-funded benefits are unaccounted for — and nearly $30 million in food stamp money went to recipients who were not eligible.
The shocking report, released to the Herald last night, found that the Department of Transitional Assistance has lost track of 47,087 households on welfare — or one out of 10 of the total 478,000 who received DTA mailings.
The welfare department also admitted that it overpaid federal food stamp recipients by a whopping $27.8 million since 2010.
So Deval needs to clean up his household before he taxes my household
Jetson
10:05 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Worst mistake in Massachusetts history. TWICE.
wiley coyote
8:39 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
@ Tyler... here's a little more food for thought: In mid-January state Auditor Suzanne M. Bump said examiners with the office’s Bureau of Special Investigations found evidence of $1,334,019 in fraudulently obtained public assistance benefits and services.
Jerry Chase
1:34 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Yeah; does it make you think of somebody else . . on a bigger scale?
Nameless Conservative
10:11 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
The best way to fix education is proven to NOT be throwing more money at it. How about abandoning statist objectives like common core and evermore testing and return to teaching?
As for expanding transportation I repeat - the MBTA has the HIGHEST DEBT of any transportation authority in the country!
How about Patrick demonstrate some leadership at getting the existing problem under control before EXPANDING it?
Bob
2:29 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Mike they are an "authority" and basically have autonomy (until they are out of money and need us to bail the out). Last I saw, there were something like 400 authorities in Massachusetts that we pay the bill for. Get rid of these and we will save billions a year.
Kurt Buermann
10:34 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Republican credo:
"Me! Me! me! It's my money! Mine! All mine! I am morally superior to everyone who isn't as greedy as I am, even if I use the roads, schools, fire, police health and countless other government services every day."
Rob C.
10:40 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Whats wrong with wanting to keep more of what you make?
I dont mind paying but when I see rampant corruption and waste in the governmnet, then yes I do not want to add more to it. Clean up the mess we currently have, then see where we are and adjust revenue accordingly.
Dan D.
10:49 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Yep, it's mine. I earned it. Government wants an ever bigger piece of my earnings. It takes enough. Starve the beast until it gets in shape.
Tyler Seguin
10:52 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
yeah, only republicans want to keep more of their money. idiotic thing to say
Rob C.
10:56 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Kurt,
Hypocrisy, thy name is Democrats. Look at our previous Senators. Neither one ever saw a tax they wouldn’t vote for yet did their best to avoid taxes. Kennedy had his mother claim residence in Florida to avoid inheritance tax, Kerry doesn’t live in RI yet registers his boat there to avoid MA tax on it.
Republicans are at least open about not wanting to pay more in taxes. Democrats want more taxes and then do their best to avoid paying those taxes.
Bob
2:31 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Kurt, It is OUR money! The state gets their money from fees and taxes. There is no such thing as state money. It is our money that they take from us.
Ajax
6:05 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Want to know how much a particular democrat makes? Ask him/her which tax bracket should see increased rates. Whatever response the liberal gives, subtract 10-20% and thats the likely income.
Ex: "Everyone who makes above $80K per year is rich and should have a tax hike." That particular liberal likely makes $65K per year.
Jetson
10:35 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Is it still everyone else's fault? Stupid is as stupid does.
Rob C.
10:36 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
I am interested in the logic I have heard that raising the income tax and lowering the sales tax will be a benefit for the lower income people. If you raise the income tax, the lower income people (and everybody else) will have less money.
Lowering the sales tax rate will really only benefit the wealthy people for necessary purchases. Food at a grocery store is tax exempt, clothing under 175 per item is tax exempt.
Using these facts lower income people will not see any benefit from the lower sales tax, only wealthy people that will spend much more than 175 for clothes. But everybody gets stiffed by getting less cash in the paycheck.
I could support a gas tax increase ONLY if the money raised is ONLY used to fix the roads. Using it for anything else is unacceptable.
If the MBTA needs more money, here’s a crazy idea CHARGE MORE FOR USING IT!!! It is already leaching 16 percent of all sales tax revenue to help fund it.
How about we have a study done on ridership, operating costs and revenue. Keep government funding as it is now and charge accordingly for each bus, subway and train ride to cover costs plus add a little in for improvements and expansion.
Dave Gray
11:34 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Charge more? What? It cost $11.00 per day plus parking (another $2.00, plus $3.00 more if you pay on the train inbound) to take the commuter rail round trip Melrose to North Station, or $173.00 a month plus parking with a rail pass. There's a garage near my workplace on Atlantic Avenue that's $15.00 all day.
Rob C.
12:33 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Dave,
Why should I, your next door neighbor or the person out in Springfield help pay for your ride to work?
I pay my own way to work. I assume that when you took the job you did what everybody else does and did the math on how much it would cost you to work there. If it costs you more once I a while then welcome to the club. It costs me more to get to work every time the gas price goes up.
The MBTA is a complete fiscal disaster. The best thing they could do is to pull a Reagan and fire everybody, write a new contract with benefits and retirement equal to what you would get in the private sector. Then rehire everybody that wants the job back at the same pay they had before (still above average), pay more into benefits (like all us people in the private sector) and then get your pension at 65 (like all us in the private sector)
However the MA politicians, that are bought and paid for by the unions, don’t have the stones to do it.
Instead they will try and make the whole state pay for this mismanaged system instead of fixing it.
If the MBTA was a private business, it would be out of business if it was run the way it is now.
Dennis Naughton
10:55 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Same old anti-progressive spew from the same old spewers. What a bore.
Emcee of Seekonk
11:09 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
You seem outnumbered. Could it possibly be that the good folks of Massachusetts are finally waking up to the real money-grabblers, the endless pension funds set up by endless unions. Massachusetts needs an overhaul not more 'investments'. If that concept is boring to you, so be it.
Fiscal Conservative
11:42 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Progressive ideas are fine (on paper). The main problem I find with those ideas is 99.9% of them cost money. Money, in a tight economy most people do not have. There are appropriate times when some of those ideas may be put in place. Now isn't the appropriate time.
Ken B.
1:12 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Really, It's easy to be in favor of an income tax hike and lob barbs at those who oppose it when your income is a pension that is exempt from that same income tax.
Nameless Conservative
2:02 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
I guess progressive-ism endorses fraud, waste and crony-ism.
Yeah, you bet I'm anti-progressive, they hate our Constitution, think everyone owes them something, are destroying our country with welfare households now receiving more than the median income of working households and they have no moral compass with which to define their "principles".
Ron Powell
9:22 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Same old anti-anti-progressive spew spewing from the same old spewers: complaining about the way things are and blaming it on someone else. The only thing missing is the proposed tax increase on the 1 percent.
Matt
10:56 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Why don't you just move up to NH Dan get it over with. No sales tax but high property taxes. A state will get your money one way or the other. The one problem I do have in this state is the MBTA. that is a huge money pit. Over paid workers stations like Down Town Crossing looks more like a dungeon then a station. And there is way to much crime. And now they want people to pay more to use it. Make it clean and safe then more people will ride the T.
Jo-Ann
11:13 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
So after reading comments it appears that most of the commentors are part of the 2% and don't want to part with a dime even if for the common good. Spoken like good republicans. Bah humbug
Nameless Conservative
2:07 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Since when was putting our government further into DEBT defined as common "good"? The government that governs LEAST is the one that governs best - proven over and over again.
Bob
2:40 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Jo-Ann, actually a member of the 5% that makes a little over HALF of what your VP makes (not including his wifes salary) yet gave 2.5 TIMES the amount to charity.
But you keep living in your dream world!
Mr. G
3:24 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
You have it backwards - we are some of the most generous folks. We choose to live in a state that has the third highest tax burden in the country.
Avon Barksdale
5:18 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
I actually have to agree with Mr. G., the reason that states like MA wind up at the bottom of charitable giving lists is because the citizens of the Commonwealth pour in far more tax dollars toward human services than in Backwards Dixieland - where churches dominate the social service sector (and do so ineptly). I would much rather my tax dollars support high-quality publicly-funded services than the scattershot, free-market, give-to-charoties/churches-and-hope methodology that results in social sinkholes like you find in so many southern and plains states. Let them crow about how "charitably generous" they are while their medically and socially vulnerable populations languish from inadequate support (which, of course, leads to the need for more long-term services and more public resources in the long run, but who cares about economics - people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps or rot and die, right?).
Tina
5:02 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I am not a Republican -- I am registered to vote as "Unenrolled," which means independent and unaffiliated with a political party. I hate the description "Unenrolled," because it sounds like "apathetic." I am far from apathetic in my opposition to Governor Patrick's proposed tax increase, and I am not a member of the elite 2%. Rather, I am disabled and surviving on Social Security, so every dime counts!
Kurt Buermann
11:22 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Rob C. You post (10:36 am on Saturday, March 9) :
"Hypocrisy, thy name is Democrats"
For what it's worth-- Hipocrisy is a venal sin, greed is a mortal one. Anti-tax misers should worry less about the hikes and more about their immortal souls.
Bob
2:43 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
ROTFLMAO! So being anti-tax is immoral? You are funny! Remember the 10 commandments? "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house" House meaning ALL possessions! Pro-tax is immoral!
Nameless Conservative
6:15 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Free market greed is .. one of the only two proven means that can produce a surplus, (="wealth"). The other is SLAVERY. Name another...?
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the world but democrats have never seen a tax they didn't want to increase no matter how high it is. Which will cause a company to try to sell more stuff at a lower cost in order to compete - letting them keep 60% of their profit or letting them keep 100% of it? (Hint - taxes do NOT create jobs...)
So no, greed is not any kind of sin - it's natural. Not only that, free market capitalism is what built the USA and now socialists want to step in and rape the wealth it produced.
Jetson
11:22 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Do they refresh your EBT card at the beginning or middle of the month. See how stupid comments sound. Having a different opinion and being tired of how the working class are being treated makes me a Republican? Well at least we know what you are.
Dick
11:31 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Why bother to vote anymore? The Pols. will do as THEY wish.
The people be damned!
I don't bother to vote in ANY elections anymore. I refuse to be a party to this debacle.
Dennis Naughton
11:35 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Much of the stereotyping, from characterization of certain elected officials to the references to people who receive public assistance, demonstrate that a Klan Konciousness is alive and well here in Masachusetts.
Jetson
12:07 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Truth hurts? Having views makes people Klan like? What a moronic comment.
PREDATOR
12:23 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Hey...why dont you do a little research on the father of your beloved progressive party...George Bernard Shaw...before you bash anti-progressives. Everyone...take a peak and let us know how you feel about progressives, obama, and deval afterwards.
Ken B.
1:26 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Dem Playbook Chapter 2, Item 3:
"When you cannot defend an inept Governor who has mismanaged spending, public health inspections, probation, welfare, the crime lab, public safety, secure communities, and the EBT program, etc., always throw out the KKK - Klan Card. Don't get into a discussion without it."
Bob
2:46 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
The race card! Took longer than I thought!
Nameless Conservative
1:34 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Oops, missed that one yesterday. Somebody help me out, is the 'race card' is worth 2 shots or 3 when you're playing liberal apologia bingo?
Jerry Chase
2:06 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I object to Mr. Naughton's needless demonizing and gross insults!
"Have you no decency, Sir?"
Bob
6:43 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Mike, 2 because he didn't double up with anti-immigrant. 4 if he played sexism with it!
Michael Fleming
11:39 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Here is the problem:
The Dems constituency is made up of primarily victim groups. Victims, by definition see their problems caused externally, outside of themselves. Once you see the world through the lens of the oppressed, it is a habit that permeates and colors everything they see. The world becomes an "us versus them" paradigm. All wealth becomes "greed", all taxes become "justice", responsibility for your self becomes "indifference to suffering", consequences for your own choices is "racism". Your desire to protect your home and family with anything deadlier than a nine iron makes you a "gun nut" and part of the "culture of violence". Your hard work and discipline and ability to delay gratification for a better life makes you "greedy" and an "elitist". In order to establish a moral argument for taking your money and to give it to others who had nothing to do with its creation... you, the successful, (the middle class or higher) must be demonized and your accomplishments must be minimized and dismissed. ("You didn't build that") ("The rich are the winners in the lottery of life")
This disease that we call socialism has spread its necrotizing virus into every poor soul who has a complaint against someone else, and they see this as their ticket to success, to equality, to justice, when in fact, it will continue to eat at the very heart of this nation, til our very essence of who we ARE finally forgets who we WERE, until we have no one else left to blame but ourselves.
Steve Marino
1:13 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Only one thing you left out, the Democratic Party has sold this successfully to their constituency. Without the help of the media and the Dems., most of their followers would have to think for themselves, and probably not vote the way they do now.
It's all about the vote for power! The Dems. Screw things up for us all, and it takes conservatives to fix their mess!
This has been going on for decades in both this state and our country.
You think at some point people would learn from past history.
The problem is that we bring people of need into this country instead of educated successful people, and we are now paying a price for this action.
( thank you Ted Kennedy )! Your legacy is crushing the working class, and the results are here to stay until we stop voting for the Democratic Party, and turn this mess around.
Tyler Jozefowicz
5:59 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Michael Fleming: the right wing blogs have taught you well. I like the part about "this disease we call socialism...". The only thing left out of the tea party playbook that you forgot was the arming against a tyrannical government that is coming to take our guns, freedom and liberty, shredding the Constitution and what our forefathers said. Besides that you covered all the far right talking points.
Cecil Moore
10:45 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Michael,
Thank you. That was the most intelligent writing posted in the last year. It was unbiased, unashamed, and uniform in completion....but more importantly honest and fair.
God bless.
Amber B.
1:16 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
It's class warfare. It's sold by the highest income earners in both parties to keep the middle class and poor pissed off and pointing fingers, and ignoring the politicians who keep picking your pockets.
Jerry Chase
2:04 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Michael Fleming: the prose laurate of Patch. Great, accurate, & truthful writing!
Michael Fleming
6:03 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Jerry and Cecil
Thank you for kind replys (below).
I try to stay as clear eyed as I can, what with all this fog being belched forth into the atmosphere from the government mouth pieces.
Stay strong
Wind Dummy 25
11:44 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Same old arguments and dodging the obvious up there Democrats...Insult the tax payer then run. Inspiring & useless at the same time. Typical.
The Patrick blather was nonsense in 06 and even more convoluted now.
There is a box you tax me freaks can check you know. i your feel the need to be fleeced, by all means check it... Lead the way.
With all that top heavy payroll and pensions accumulating 2 Bill?
It won't be nearly enough.
Bob
2:50 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Wind, great point! Last year I heard only something like 200 people in Massachusetts checked that box. Very telling!
wiley coyote
8:54 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
@ Steve marino. the real question is. did he buy it with his EBT card?
Janet Sroczynski
1:18 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
@Tyler Jozefowicz and @Banks Snodgrass: you wrote: "catgegory and rough dollars. Heard the rhetoric so long but no one backs it up, and don't just quote a total dollar budget line" and then Banks Snodgrass at: "I would love to see a list of all this waste and fraud and see what it adds up to. Nothing that would make any difference."
To those points, look up: 1) http://www.childrensrights.org - current lawsuit; trial began in Boston courts on January 22, 2013: U.S. Courthouse; Courtroom #18; 5th floor; 1 Courthouse Way; Boston case of: Connor B. vs. Deval Patrick; Judy Ann Bigby; Angelo McClain; Boston Law Firm of Nutter, McClennan & Fish and Co-counsel Daniel J.Gleason and Mary K. Ryan. When at website: 2) http://www.childrensrights.org - click on the following: www.childrensrights.org/reform-campaigns/legal-cases/Massachusetts/. Or click on the link at the bottom of the page; "Overview" -and "Legal Documents" and "Fact Sheets" are all there for viewing; Connor v. Patrick (Deval); Case: 3:10-cv-30073;U.S.District Court; District of Massachusetts. Affecting 7,500 children and the DCF-Dept. of Children & Families. Eliminate the Fraud and the Waste at the DCF-Dept. of Children & Families.
Rob C.
1:49 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Simple question Banks.
If we cut defense by 350 billion (I agree we could do that, will sting though) and then redistribute that cash to all 50 states as you suggest.
Where exactly would savings be? Cutting spending here and sending the money there is not saving, that is keeping the same unsustainable status.
As for this state, what about the illegals getting welfare (Obamas Aunt for one) and the 19,000 missing welfare recipients that continue to receive their money? What about the money paid out to double dipping pensions? 70K a year to toll collectors plus benefits? I could go on and on but these are just a few that popped into my head.
This country/state does not have a revenue problem, we have a SPENDING problem.
Rob C.
2:15 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Banks,
I just gave 4 examples of waste and fraud in the State. If you don’t see that as waste or fraud then there is no point I having this discussion.
All you did was decide we spend too much to protect ourselves, take that money and send it elsewhere for a total spending savings of $0.00. But you feel better about yourself because it is not going to evil defense contractors. And defense spending is federal not state.
What about all those hard working civilians that would be out of work with a blanket 350 billion cut to defense?
Leave a message if you come up with something other than the standard Democrat mantra of only cut defense or raise taxes.
Time to go outside and enjoy this nice day.
Bob
2:53 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
LOL so to you Banks, ALL defense spending is waste and fraud? Do you know Gov. pensions are a larger piece of the US budget (back when we actually had one pre Obama) than defense? Gov. HC is 1% less? Nah no waste and fraud there! 47% of the budget!
Mr. G
3:17 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
With a name like Banks you'd think he would be better at math. Last I checked, half of $535 billion is $267.5 billion, not $350 billion. But it's a false argument that does not require debate.
Led by the messiah they worship, the Federal Government's own CBO admits there is at least $112 billion in waste, fraud, and abuse every year. And we know how accurate their estimates are. The mayors of simpleton that abound refuse to acknowledge this despite the constant streams of news articles that expose it, even from the state run media, which under Bush ran regular stories about the fleecing of America. But apparently all that waste, fraud, and abuse stopped 1/9/2009.
Ken B.
5:30 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Banks, It really doesn't matter to you what we say, or how many examples of how many dollars are wasted where, and what could be cut. For whatever reason, affixed firmly to the public nipple, low information voter, trust funder, whatever, you're simply not interested.
Ken B.
7:27 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
You've been given examples. Read a newspaper, listen to the radio, or google online news services. Try some other sources beside MSDNC, The Globe and the NYT.
It's not Bob's or my job to do your work for y....oh that's right. I forgot....as a liberal, that's just what you expect from everybody.
Amber B.
1:22 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
How about cutting the money dropped into buying 8.5billion hollow point rounds of ammunition for domestic use? How about cutting the $450million going to Egypt, and countless more to other countries who are going to use our money to try to kill us? You want me to be pissed off about food stamps, you damn well better cut those expenses first.
Janet Sroczynski
1:42 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
How much money did I find in waste and fraud? Quite a bit.
http://www.usdebtclock.org
$6+ Trillion New Obama Debt, and still incurring additional debt while in office a 2nd-term.
Isabella Jancourtz
5:45 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Janet, thanks for the link to the U.S. debt clock, which I had never seen before.
Here's another link, showing that our military expenditures exceed (by far) those of all the other countries in the world: www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
I remember President Eisenhower warning us to beware the military-industrial complex. Ike was right. We should have taken his advice.
Nameless Conservative
1:41 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
And guess which political party objects to the presence of a debt clock display in Congress?
http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/democrats-complain-about-presence-of-debt-clock-on-capitol-hill/
Aren't all they all just precious?
Earnhardt
3:23 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
I can't believe the people who voted old Deval back in were either too blind or too naive to see what was going to happen. No matter how you look at it. Raising gas tax, lowering sales tax, whatever spin you put on it. The money is coming out of the pockets of those of us that work for a living every day. Keep voting those Dems into office and therefore keep expecting the black eyes every time they need more money. To those who voted him in, You get what you deserve, To the rest of us, we have to suffer the consequences
dana banda
3:29 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
folks, face it ,we live in massachusetts, our elected officials do not care about you or your children, Devo even said that when asked about lizzie the indian, WE DONT CARE, government must be reformed , we all know this, lets see if they will fix the fraud first, then we will discuss what we can afford I know this is a pipe dream
Rob C.
4:17 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Banks,
I say there is waste and fraud in the state, you say there is none. I have an easy solution to find out who is wrong since the state doesn’t even know, If I am wrong I will gladly admit it.
Pass the following legislation,
First would be welfare reform: No more state money of any kind for illegal aliens except for emergency medical. Anybody already on welfare has 60 days to report to an office with proof of residency to continue to receive it (remember 19,000 missing) with a limit of 5 years. Welfare should be to help along when down, not a way of life.
Second would be pension reform:
Everybody already retired not effected. Everyone else, you do not get your pension till social security age.
Third health care:
All public employees will now have a $25 office copay equal to that of the public sector.
Fourth would be to strike down prevailing wage law. Allow open bidding by any company for any state job.
If there is no waste or fraud like you say then this will not affect anybody and we dont save any money and I am wrong.
If there is waste and fraud, like Nancy Pelosi would say, you have to pass it to see what would happen.
Avon Barksdale
5:08 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Interesting that we will cut down on waste and fraud by committing fraud - that is, by entering into pension agreements with public employees, and then changing the terms of disbursement midstream. Isn't that the definition of fraud, telling someone that they will have X dollars on Y date, then saying "no, that money is ours until Z date, and then you only get it if we decide you can have it because maybe we'll pick a new later date, and we'll collect interest on that cash in the meantime, screw you if you can't take a joke."
Bob
9:08 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Avon,it happens every day in the real world. Polaroid and many other companies filed for bankruptcy and walked away from those obligations. Not great but when there is no more money you have to re-negotiate. The good news is that unlike those in the real world who lost all their pensions, public employees would only be asked to take a 10 or 20% cut.
Avon Barksdale
11:29 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Thanks for the history lesson that I already knew. Just because it's been done wrong in the past is no reason to commit the same crime in the present and future. And when you work for a private company, you take on certain market-driven risks that are mitigated (or eliminated) when you work for the government. The obvious give/take is that private companies offer the opportunity for greater compensation, while public work involves greater security. While nobody looks forward to it, many private companies will go bankrupt and burn their employees/stockholders in the aftermath, the government is held to a higher standard in this regard. If the State of Massachusetts starts screwing over people on pension agreements, where does it end?
And before the idiocy starts by some of the folks here born with chromosomal defects, I've never been a public employee a day in my life.
Bob
9:41 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Avon, that use to be the case! 40-50 years ago public employees made @60-70% of the private sector. Now they make 120% and still get the 80% of their best 3 years. They also retired after 20 years and got HC for life! Look at the salaries of state and federal workers median versus private now.
THERE IS NO MORE MONEY! The well is tapped and like it or not, it has to stop!
Avon Barksdale
1:01 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
The whole "public employees make 120% of what the private sector makes" is a ridiculous lie based on one flawed analysis that compares non-comparable jobs. It was published a few years ago and people like you keep bringing it up (and citing it like it's fact) despite how ludicrously inaccurate the study was (and how easily it was debunked). Seriously, if the study had any merit whatsoever I would agree with you, but it doesn't. In fact, the study has "whatever is the opposite of merit."
Amber B.
1:25 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
FYI, welfare is already limited to 2 out of every 5 years.
Rob C.
1:36 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Avon,
Go to the Boston Herald website, scroll down and click on your tax dollars at work.
Entire payroll for the state is listed there.
$323,722.49 for a teacher in Boston?
$761,314.30 to a UMass employee?
Try find a state police officer pulling in under 150K
Take a look through that and then say that state employees are not paid more than private sector.
And then to get ridiculous pensions on top of that before retirement age?
Jerry Chase
1:59 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
If Avon Barksdale truly knew as much as he claimed, he'd be smarter than Einstein.
Avon Barksdale
2:04 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Jerry, I'm sorry that you know so little that you compare my subject knowledge to Einstein's. I do love anti-intellectuals, the people who scream bloody murder and get out their torches with little to no actual knowledge of what they're screaming about, and then when someone tries to provide actual information, rather than listen and analyze (which they can't do, usually due to a lack of mental capacity) they turn their torches on them.
Avon Barksdale
2:04 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
"Go to the Boston Herald..."
Yeah, no.
Avon Barksdale
2:27 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Funny, I googled "highest paid Boston teachers" and found out that there are two teachers in Boston who made over $300k in 2012 ... and both of them have base salaries under $100k (one of them makes like $29k) but they are receiving lump-sum payouts from lawsuits. It took me about 30 seconds to learn this, and that their 2012 payments should in no way ever be used to compare their "salaries" to those in the private sector. But how much easier is it to just remain ignorant and repeat the same ignorant screeching over and over again? I guess we'll have to ask Rob C.
Rob C.
2:35 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
And yet you refuse to go to the newspapers website and examine the payroll of the state. Who wants to remain ignorant of the facts?
The entire payroll is there, 150k for an administrative assistant?
The research has already been done for the entire state. The waste is right there for you to see but yet you choose not to go look at it.
78k to sit in a tool booth? essentially the same job as a parking garage attendant. Google me one parking garage attendant that makes 78k then we can talk.
Avon Barksdale
2:41 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
The Herald is not the only site that publishes the data, ace.
Yes, there are many examples of overpaid state employees. The idea that this translates into "state workers earn more than private workers" is such a flimsy argument that it borders on retardation.
Avon Barksdale
2:43 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
OMIGOD I FOUND A FEW OUTLIERS this must mean everything is broken
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
6:54 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Unless he believed in the Tooth Fairy, the pensioner should have known it was a joke from the beginning..unaffordable and unsustainable.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
JohnnyMass
7:27 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Keep on voting in this garbage like Obama, Patrick, Warren, and Markey. The fools in this state will never learn.
JT
9:55 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
If you don't like it then get the hell out of Mass. You would fit right in in Alabama or Mississippi and we won't miss you.
Nameless Conservative
1:53 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
JT's remark illustrates the degree of sincerity liberals have for their principles of inclusiveness and tolerance.
Jerry Chase
1:58 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Right, JohnnyMass. And the reason is two-fold: they won't learn because they don't want to learn; AND they fervently believe the baloney that the left-leaning pols and party "care" more for them than the other party, every time. Karl Marx won Mass., less than 150 years after his death.
Bob
7:35 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Hey Rob C...how do I get the same health insurance that you spoke of..with the $25 co-pay. I am a Town employee and I have $45 co-pays so going to a $25 would save my family a lot of money...Sounds great...sign me up!!!
wiley coyote
10:02 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Geat Comeback JT! thanks for the thoughtful and intelligent insight. How do you know he would fit right in? Did you live in either state?
Andrew Sylvia
9:01 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Comments have been deleted due to violations of the terms of use (#1)
wiley coyote
9:21 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Ahh! censorship at it's best!
Ron Powell
9:24 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Meh. I've seen better.
Nameless Conservative
7:04 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
"is defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive;"
May I suggest that the last term, "offensive", be stricken or modified because it is simply too subjective. Most political commentary is bound to offend the senses of someone of the opposite political persuasion.
There's an old saying - if it's too hot for you, get out of the kitchen.
Jerry Chase
1:53 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
"Hold the phone". If Andrew Sylvia is the editor for high-falutin' towns Nawth a heah, why is Andrew Sylvia posting here? Let him post on his own "turf".
Andrew Sylvia
4:35 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Hi Jerry,
This and several other articles are posted regionally on multiple Patches.
wiley coyote
9:30 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Meh. whatever.. it's still censorship
Andrew Sylvia
9:10 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
You're new here "wiley coyote," so let me repeat for you.
Westford readers have repeatedly asked me to enforce the comments section as strictly as possible under the terms of use. As said above, I probably could go further, but I would prefer not to.
This is a regional piece, published in several towns, including Westford.
This is a privately owned service. If you do not like the terms of use, I suggest you go elsewhere. I will do what my readers request of me whenever possible, until they say otherwise.
P.S. -- More comments have been deleted due to terms of use violations.
Amber B.
1:29 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Censorship has been fully condoned by the existing administration by passing legislation to limit your First Amendment rights. Better get used to it...if you don't like what it says, claim it is offensive and delete it.
(Some will see this as offensive, too, you know.)
Andrew Sylvia
4:41 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Amber,
The First Amendment doesn't, and has never, extended to forcing the speech of some onto others, especially in regard to privately owned property.
It'd basically be like saying someone has the right to go to the house of a private resident and start a protest on their lawn without their permission.
Patch is a company, no different than that house. If you go to someone's house and they tell you to take off their shoes, you should take off your shoes or leave.
Ron Powell
5:17 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Yeah, it's private censorship, which is actually permissible.
Amber B.
8:52 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Andrew: that's what I said. Play by their rules or take your ball and go home. Or in this case, they'll kick your ball out the door and send you home, tossing your shoes out the door behind you. ;)
Andrew Sylvia
9:28 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Gotcha, Amber
Ken B.
10:43 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
"...today Massachusetts leads the nation in economic competitiveness, student achievement, health care coverage, life sciences and biotech, energy efficiency and veterans' services. Today, with the help of the Obama administration, we are rebuilding our roads and bridges and expanding broadband access. Today we're out of the deficit hole Mr. Romney left, and we've achieved the highest bond rating in our history. Today—with labor at the table—we've made the reforms in our pension and benefits systems, our schools, our transportation system and more..."
So tell us Mr. Patrick, which is true; your statement above, made at the DNC last last Summer, or your looking to suck $2 Billion more from the MA taxpayers ?
Kitchen Sink TV
11:07 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
We already pay hefty taxes for the upkeep and new roads and bridges. It's too bad that money gets diverted into other places where it does not belong. Guess who controls that? As for broadband access (and many other things), the government need not interfere.
And as far as "labor" goes, they are in it for themselves and nobody or nothing else. After nearly 20 years being a part of organized labor, I know how it works.
Jerry Chase
1:50 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
It's past time to "dump the Coupe deValle".
Remember Mike "Dump the Duke" Dukakis? Same ol', same ol'.
Mike G.
12:52 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
It's not really "censorship" if you violate the Terms of Service.
wiley coyote
7:38 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Agreed, but what is considered a violation? things said let's say on Lexington patch fly fine, but the same thing here is a violation. The editors need to get together and decide what they consider a violation and they all must abide by that. Every patch seems to have different standards. If they cannot set a standard, then they are limited in waht they can censor.
Andrew Sylvia
9:12 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Hi Wiley,
Please see above. I can't speak for other towns, but I am the editor in Westford and Chelmsford and I follow the standards of Westford and Chelmsford readers.
Readers in different towns may have different expectations. Every town is different.
Rob C.
5:09 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Andrew,
As a reader in Chelmsford I really would like to know how it is determined that something is offensive. I have seen you delete posts that I find in no way offensive but yet they are gone (particularly this article). I read some that I do not agree with but that does not make them offensive. If somebody says something to me about my thinking, I am a big boy and can answer the comment myself if I feel the need to. I cant remember seeing another editor’s name pop up on any comments that there have been deletions.
Take a look at posts on CNN, MSN, Yahoo, Boston.com and Boston Herald. There are posters there that are extremely offensive but yet they are still allowed up and they have the same “rules” as Patch has.
So as a Chelmsford reader I would like to request that you ease up on what you deem to be offensive. Or maybe just patrol your particular section of the Patch. The emails I get for this post are from Sharon, pretty far away from Chelmsford and Westford.
To the Westford and Chelmsford people that don’t want to read anything offensive, might I say, lighten up. If you get that worked up over simple political back and forward don’t read the comments or read the Disney site. (or is that offensive and worthy of deletion)
Andrew Sylvia
5:14 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Hi Rob C.
Generally I try to limit it to either comments that include obscenities (or abbreviations of obscenities) or instances where users are directly attacking each other, and even then I try to stay out of it when I can, and I also e-mail users asking them to back off if things get really out of hand.
Happy to ease up on Chelmsford specific stuff. Excuse me in advance if I forget sometimes, occasionally the two towns merge together in my brain at this point.
Ron Powell
5:18 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Posting under a pseudonym, wiley, is a violation. You might want to read the agreement you signed when you joined.
Ron Powell
5:19 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
The following words are not permitted on this site: ####, ####, ####, ####, ####, #### #### ####, ####, and ####.
Andrew Sylvia
5:57 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Hi Ron,
It used to be, but not anymore. Here's the language in there now
"We encourage, but do not require, that the user name you provide be your real name."
And on that note, to build on what Rob C. said, I'm much more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who uses their real name.
Amber B.
8:58 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
And swears are subjective. Sh- of F-bombs, okay. But I'm not sure ass or damn it are any more offensive than saying camel or rethuglican or moonbat. But apparently most Patch readers are genteel souls with pristine sensibilities. :)
And why does my Westford Patch homepage say Danielle Masterson is the editor? Is that a misprint or do we have new blood policing boards in Westford?
Andrew Sylvia
9:29 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Amber,
Michelle is the new Community Director, she's now in charge of user generated content (events, local voices columns, announcements, etc.)
Amber B.
9:50 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Congratulations and sympathies to her at the same time. :)
Who Me?
5:52 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
How about a simple question..Massachusetts ranks at the top of the highest overall tax burdens in the US. If our spendthrift Governor and Democratic "leaders" gets their way we may well push to number one.
Tewksbury has the second highest water and sewer rates in Ma and was just named as one of 10 Cities/Towns with the highest increase in property taxes over the last 10 years. Tewksbury also has one of the largest debt per captia/income in the State as well.
Would it be "OK" to ask "How much higher on these scales do you want to go"?
http://money.msn.com/taxes/5-highest-5-lowest-states-for-taxes
Jerry Chase
1:47 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
1. What motivation to change for a 200-seat legislature that gets re-elected at a 97% rate? How would you like such odds at not losing your job?
2. It comes down to philosophy: who knows what's better for you, you or some lefty politician . . . which permeate this state like sand at Horseneck Beach. Unless and until Dems start losing heavily in TAXachusetts, it'll never change. Hint: why are New Jersey residents leaving the Garden State in droves? High cost of living,
INCLUDING TAXES.
3. How optimistic can a neutral-leaning voter be when the 'ultimate liberal',
Ed Markey, is leading the race for the Democrat nod for Senate? How much more evidence does anyone need . . . for those willing to SEE, that is.
Nameless Conservative
7:14 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Yeah, they claim that they "means test" people receiving any form of welfare but when it comes confiscatory taxes on property they do not give a rat's rear end about anyone's means to pay it.
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher
Earnhardt
7:42 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
@ wiley, I believe it is left to the discretion of each editor, Some may be easier on what's said than others. We have to respect each editor's decision. Better to censor something than to have it lead to a situation that gets way out of hand. Already this thread is getting off topic. Let's get back to the issue.
wiley coyote
9:17 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Wow, Andrew, real professional with the quotation marks and the P.S. This is a thread about politics, Fearhers are bound to get ruffled. Just as mine are ruffled by your Unprofessional remarks. I believe Earnhardt above is right You all need to get together and come up with a consistant plan. Not one where you censor at your discretion. P.S. think about that.
Andrew Sylvia
9:32 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Just doing my job.
If you can't follow the terms of use, you can head elsewhere.
Serves You Right
9:40 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I believe everyone who is pissed off at all the Taxes" imposed here in Taxachusetts should gather together at the waterfront and throw the Governors tea into the Harbor!!
Irony at it's best!!!
Carolyn Costain
2:11 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Why waste tea? Tossing the Governor in would seem more fitting!
Michael Fleming
9:58 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Serves you right
Agreed. We DO need another show that the taxes are just too darn high here. But we all know the reason for this, do we not? It takes money, preferably other people's money, to buy votes with trinkets and beads. A cell phone here, free birth control there, you know, the ESSENTIAL stuff that convinces a voter that their short term wants and desires take precedence over long term fiscal wisdom. It's the "Here and Now" crowd versus those that know that our growing debt is a time bomb, that when it explodes, it will take ALL of us, even the ones who work hard, save our money, pay the lions share of the taxes.
Avon Barksdale
10:23 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Yes, let's make sure we stay 100% on topic, because if Patch commenters can focus we will not only solve the fiscal crisis we will also cure cancer. I personally adore the on-topic wisdom of those who blame the demoRATS and the reTHUGlicans (YOU GUYS ARE HILARIOUS! DID YOU WRITE THOSE YOURSELVES?) because that's where all reasoned debate begins.
Mike G.
12:12 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I see what you did there.
Diana
9:37 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Avon, my fondest Patch dream is that they'd delete any post that calls a politician by any "witty" alternative to their actual name. That would leave approximately 80% of the deadweight with nothing to say.
Carolyn Costain
10:39 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Every time I read that MA. will raise tax "again" the word suppression, Oppression, the exercise of authority or power in a "burdensome", cruel, or unjust manner comes to mind. In our state, when the cost of living goes up and minimum wage goes up. Our State takes back any increase by raising "TAXES!" Our government is suppressing its people with "burdensome" Taxes!
Michael Fleming
10:41 am on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Carolyn Costain for Governor!
Carolyn Costain
12:03 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Yes' Michael Fleming, i would have everyone from MA. meet at the dock of the US Constitution and toss all their tax bills into the Boston harbor! "We would all "most likely" get tickets for littering!"
Amber B.
1:34 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
<sarcasm>AP Breaking News: The Boston Harbor Litterers, a New England domestic terrorist group, will be taken out with hollow points by DHS officials and any remaining will be tortured and denied due process, as is custom for terrorists of their caliber. </sarcasm>
Carolyn Costain
2:49 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Amber, not to mention Boston police would pelt us with deadly rubber bullets and tear gas us all!
Amber B.
9:00 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Or tasers, until they can get their hands on better technology from Raytheon.
Earnhardt
12:59 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Actually the Cherokee have revealed her true Tribal name, the one given to her at birth. It is: Ga ye go gi.......It fits her well.
Nameless Conservative
2:06 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I can't seem to find the translation for that. Does it mean "spreading bull" or do you want more people to keep guessing ? :)
Earnhardt
2:50 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Mike. Spreading bull would also fit here, basically it means Liar. but spreading bull.... I like that better.
wiley coyote
5:49 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
@ Ron Powell. How does Andy know if that is my name or not? LOLOLOL you have heard of the actor Peter Coyote? We could be related, :) I think old Andy there gets a little too big for his britches now and then, but he is harmelss. A little schoolmarm strict, but harmelss. He is just flexing his muscle.
Andrew Sylvia
5:59 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Just doing my job Wiley,
Well, my job is actually being a reporter, I'm only required to come in here and babysit you guys every now and then because people I know keep on telling me at Starbucks or Town Hall or wherever that things keep on getting out of control and I keep on having to get you guys in line or they won't come and read the articles.
Nothing would please me more if you guys just behaved yourself and I didn't have to worry about those other people feeling uncomfortable.
Avon Barksdale
6:08 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Andrew, next time those people walk up to you in Starbuck's, ask them "well why don't you just not read the comments?" Also, people who get all indignant about decorum on comment pages keep on coming back, clicking "refresh," and saying "WELL I NEVER." Angry, confrontational comment sections are good for business, if they weren't then Patch wouldn't allow comments. No news site makes money off of people chatting about recipes or cub scout meetings.
That being said, what passes for debate and/or humor here is pretty dismal and depressing. Lots of dunderheads repeating the same stupid political "jokes" over and over again and patting each other on the back because they are SO controversial. If you heard people muttering this stuff on the streets, you'd assume they were among the homeless mentally ill. So I can see why you'd remove some of it, but dear lord don't pass it off as some kind of morality-patrol "service" to your precious, innocent, loyal readers around town.
Amber B.
9:03 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
It may depend on how high up the food chain the Westford complainers are. After all, they managed to shut down the old town forum by bullying and threatening the owner. It was only when we got an impartial person to administer a new one that we were able to post freely again.
Jerry Chase
5:57 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
" . . backing into half a cat " ?? That's a duesey if I've ever heard one. At first, I figured that the 'other half' was stuck to the guv's back tire tread! "Clear as a bowl of mud".
Earnhardt
6:05 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Babysit? wow. just cause you had no weekend plans you were the guy picked out to be the Man in charge, Im done with you. we have no quarrel, you didn't delete my comments, so I don't really care. I don't see how to have a political discussion without upsetting someone.. Swearing is one thing, Normal hard debate is something else. So when do the grownups come home so you don't have to babysit us big people anymore?
Earnhardt
6:12 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
I do take offense to you saying you have to babysit a group of people having political conversations though. As I said I have no quarrel my comments were not deleted, But then again, I didnt say much this weekend,
Carolyn Costain
8:36 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Earnhardt, Stop acting like a child taking a tantrum! Maybe then you wouldn't need a baby sitter!
Amber B.
9:04 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Time out, no. Tear gas and rubber bullets, maybe. :D
wiley coyote
6:15 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Whoa Earnhardt! I got this. you said it just fine but i got this. Thanks anyways
Earnhardt
6:17 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Starbucks conversation? whats next? your dentist telling you its getting nasty? Jeez
Andrew Sylvia
9:47 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
If my dentist told me they decided to stop reading the Patch, I'd take it pretty seriously.
Michael Fleming
6:30 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Andrew
I'm not sure that I like this attitude you've got "babysitting" us. What are you, all of 28 years old?
Look, if you've got a date somewhere, why don't you get some of the software that other publications use that recognize dirty words along with their dopplegangers, turn it on, and go party with the rest of your reporter friends. We'll be able to handle it from here.
Earnhardt
6:33 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Mike, I was kind of on his side this morning, Until the "babysitiing" remark. Now I agree with you. Like I said, he was the one left behind this weekend, Some kid with big credentials, has the need to "babysit" UGH!
Andrew Sylvia
9:52 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Michael,
You're entitled to your opinion, but in the end, like I've said above, if the readers in Westford want a strict interpretation, that's what they're going to get.
P.S. -- And here I was feeling old after all these constant 7 day/60 hour work weeks.
Avon Barksdale
6:34 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Babies everywhere should rise up in protest at being lumped in with this bunch.
wiley coyote
6:35 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Let it go... It's done, it will be back in Charlies hands tomorrow.. I don't know if thats any better, but its gotta be better than this,,,
Stephen V. Kane
7:37 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Last summer during my campaign I said, "They want a $600 Million tax increase for raises and program expansion." Now they posture $1.2 Trillion and will negotiate with themselves to settle at $600 Million in this predictable, not-so-cheap farce. Meanwhile the children are left with an $80 Billion debt they can never pay. "No new taxes unless specifically earmarked for debt" is the just way to establish the next generation. Instead Senator Patrick will take off for Washington in January 2015 leaving Governor Brown to clean up the mess.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
7:45 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Republican Proverb:
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and
he will eat for a lifetime.
Democrat Proverb:
Give a man a welfare check, free cell phone, free Internet, cash for
his clunker, food stamps, section eight housing, free contraceptives,
Medicaid, ninety-nine weeks of unemployment, free medicine, and he
will vote Democrat the rest of his life, even after he is dead.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Vincent DiRico
7:55 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
And ill eagles are never, ever eligible for any of them ;)
Avon Barksdale
7:56 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
whoa theres some more of that Patch humor woo that so edgy
Amber B.
9:07 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Vinny, what was on Fox News tonight? I have a paper to write on media ethics [oxymoron], so I missed all of the good stuff. :p